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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Thoughts of IVF lotto

112 replies

welshbyrd · 06/07/2011 16:22

I apologies if it has already been done, but what do we all think about it?

OP posts:
welshbyrd · 07/07/2011 07:55

It never went bold Confused I will try again
*I think its disgusting. Playing with people's emotion's each week, whilst making financial gain from it

Fgs, whats next? lottery jackpot of over expensive cancer pills, that are not given out on nhs?
Perhaps, an ebay auction on someones healthy kidney?
Why not throw in a boob job online bingo
A raffle for a healthy bit of bonemarrow

Where does it end?*

OP posts:
welshbyrd · 07/07/2011 07:56

nope, its to early Blush

OP posts:
emptyshell · 07/07/2011 08:16

I've got no problems with it - there's another thread where I've laid that down.

I can afford to throw the odd £20 out on having a go - I don't meet NHS guidelines (live in a very very bad PCT trust where their IVF policies are concerned), we can't afford to save enough to have treatment privately - what harm am I doing if I grab what I know to be a ridiculously small chance and raise some money toward an organisation that helps provide information about fertility clinics? It's my money, my life, my future and it's not taking resources from the NHS (because we all know that if you suffer fertility problems you're automatically some kind of sub-human drain on NHS resources... even if the only thing you've had from them is a couple of blood tests and a meeting with the dildocam... that's resources you DAMN WELL AIN'T ALLOWED COS YER PLUMBING DON'T WORK!).

Adoption - I'm not black or mixed race - my county lay it very firmly on the line that your chances of finding a child if you don't meet those circumstances are slim to none. The idiots making "oh just adopt" noises - well why didn't you? There aren't the children out there, the system's so badly designed and again, if you're going into it because of infertility you're judged even more harshly than if you're not - like with everything - ain't life fun?!

YOUR children were lifestyle choices as well by the way - should the NHS withdraw all funding for ante-natal and maternity services? Following your warped logic they should.

I think it's incredibly sanctamonious and ignorant to judge couples whose shoes you haven't walked in as some kind of gibbering, incoherrent, gullible set of wrecks being viciously preyed upon by this evil lottery and sat there clutching their ticket every month convinced they'll win... do people sit there with their National Lottery tickets like that? Nah - we buy ours, I may occasionally allow myself the odd 10 minute daydream on the way home about what I'd do if my numbers came up - but that's it, a daydream, a little bit of hope to lift you over the course of the day - and the worst thing about fertility problems is the fact that month after month that little glimmer of hope gets dimmed - and you end up trudging through life, mechanically shagging like rabbits (you know you've lost the plot when you're sat there delivering a motivational pep talk to your husband's scrotum and telling them which way they're meant to go under the logic that sperm are little men and won't stop and ask for directions). You don't GET through the infertility system without being very clued up about the odds/possible causes/potential solutions... you don't GET what you need without having to research yourself what you need to ask for, and you end up with a very very very good awareness of the success rates of natural conception on any given month (it's a bloody miracle anyone gets upduffed at all btw - seriously go YouTube The Great Sperm Race if you ain't seen it - it's fascinating stuff) and any fertility treatments going - because if you're getting one shot at anything, you bloody well sit and weigh up the odds of the differerent treatments in a level that puts the way many on here scrutinise league tables and Ofsted reports to shame.

So yeah, I'd quite possibly buy a ticket on the off-chance that someone has to win... someone will, they may well even get lucky with the shit odds of IVF success and get their happy ending - hasn't cost the NHS any money, hasn't cost you personally any money - so in reality it's none of anyone's business but the organisation running it and the people paying into it reallys. Think about all the people who get pissed off at strangers touching their baby bumps - yet if you suffer with fertility problems you're expected to justify your entire sex life, even your career choices to some of the fucking slimeballs on here, and every decision you make to the rest of the world. I'm not public property - neither is anyone else (exceptions apparently need to be made for Pippa Middleton's arse though).

There've been some delightful threads on here bashing non-parents who work in a professional capacity with children from offering even advice in those fields... accord those struggling to become parents the same level of acceptance that they know their situation much better than you possibly can do please... we're not delicate little flowers needing to be protected (you toughen up pretty damn sharpish - you HAVE to to stay sane with the absurdity of it all), we don't need some sanctamonious tosser on the internet telling us to "come to terms with things" (from friends who are older than me I know you never truly do - just as things numb down, the grandchildren arrive and it all renews again) and we definitely don't need people concluding we're being exploited and need protecting... the shit we need protecting from is more the snake oil sites that come up when you start googling conception difficulties - for just $19.99 a month you can buy our miracle vitamins and that crap.

And yes, we've tried sticking our legs in the air after a shag... and grapefruit juice... and cough medicine... and loose boxer shorts and zinc supplements... and talking to your fella's balls giving them verbal directions and a pep talk...

hels71 · 07/07/2011 08:54

Well, when I read the article my first thought was how can I get a ticket......

I have been very lucky in having one successful IVF (dreadful me on the NHS)

DH has now been diagnosed with diabetes so our slim chance of a natural miracle has all but gone and there is no way we can raise the funds to try again (although I do get a lotterey ticket with the dream of winning enough for treatment.is that wrong too???)...

We have looked into adoption (That all so easy and obvious option according to some on here) and everywhere says the same thing...we would have to adopt a child who would be the youngest in the family AND due to DH age we could not adopt a child under 7...so we will have to wait at least 4 years then... (And that assumes the minimum child age does not go up as DH gets older)

This IVF lottery is not a lottery to get a baby, it is a lottery to have the chance to try for a baby...something most people on here take for granted every month....

Anyone who is at the point of needing IVF is usually very aware of the limitations, chances of success etc and no-one would be going into it assuming it all works.....

Really, it is surely up to an individual to decide if they want to "risk" £20 on the off chance it may give a small glimmer of hope...........

SwedishKaz · 07/07/2011 09:07

My DH and I spent seven years trying for a baby. We had to pay for treatments the first five years, and were happy to do so because we so desperately wanted to be parents. When our funds ran out, we started considering adopting, but came to the conclusion that we still really wanted to have our own child. Luckily, our area then started giving out three IVF attempts on the NHS, and we conceived on the first attempt.
I can't explain to you how happy we were to find out we were pregnant. I can't explain how extremely disappointed we were every time previous to this when the treatment DIDN'T work, the guilt I felt for being a woman and not being fertile! I did not become infertile by choice and I really disagree with people comparing infertility with cosmetic operations. Angry

Getting to the topic (sorry - I just get very angry) though - I think it's odd to have an IVF lottery. What if an 18-year old buys a ticket? She/he has no idea if they're actually infertile. Do they get IVF if they win? It's bizarre, but I know if it went ahead, I would buy at least one ticket because I would LOVE another baby, but I can't afford any more treatment.

hels71 · 07/07/2011 09:17

Do people really think that just anyone is going to spend £20 on a ticket that might win them a chance to go through an emotional rollercoaster of invasive, stressful treatment that involves countless injections, drugs that make you feel like death warmed up, drugs that make your ovaries swell to God knows what size leaving you in a pain and discomfort, that might not even work if theycould actually concieve by snuggling up in bed and making love????

Surely the people who will be buying tickets are not your average 18 year old who I would imagine has many other things to spend the money on.......

SwedishKaz · 07/07/2011 09:22

LOL @ hels71 - you never know though, right?

MassagesDeclinedByNetmums · 07/07/2011 09:29

Surely the worst possible outcome is people entering who dont need it then selling the treatment on at a massive profit?

But I made it clear on the other thread, I think its a good idea.

Bogeyface · 07/07/2011 09:37

Massages, I would hope that the organisers would have T&Cs in place that mean that the prize isnt transferrable, so that wouldnt happen. But I do agree that it is unlikely that anyone who doesnt actually need IVF would spend £20 on a ticket.

BagofHolly · 07/07/2011 09:41

The HFEA still oversee fertility treatment, there are legal and ethical hoops to jump through before a clinic will agree to treat, or they lose their license. all this lottery prize is a chance to get all your bills paid. You still have to actually get an agreement from whichever clinic that you're a suitable candidate.

Deux · 07/07/2011 11:09

Welshbyrd, I find your attitude extremely patronising. Who are you to say that?

Your head is up your arse if that's what you think.

Words fail me. Stop being so patronising. Just how do you know that it's playing with people's emotions, huh? You won't be taking part so what's the problem?

Crikey, this attitude that people need to be protected from themselves. Let them decide.

SleepyCat1 · 07/07/2011 12:17

I'm going to buy a ticket - I have a beautiful 5 year old thanks to ivf. Evey night when we go to bed and peep in on her and every morning when we wake up and see her smiling face we can't believe how lucky we are. I have blocked tubes caused by endometriosis which was repeatedly dismissed as normal painful periods by doctors over the years - perhaps if they had diagnosed it early on i would have been able to concieve naturally. We have spent approximately £25,000 on IVF as took three goes to have dd at a time where my pct did not fund treatment and once you have a child you are no longer eligible for funding. If I do not win at least I know that I will have contributed towards someone else being given the chance.

emptyshell · 07/07/2011 12:31

Funny how the people it directly affects, those whose hopes and dreams are being "cruelly played with" (barf) are the ones who are perfectly fine, and not kidding themselves at all that they're going to win but it's worth a 20 quid on it.

The ones up in arms - aren't affected by it one jot and just fancy a nice spot of moral outrage on the behalf of those who really don't want them being morally outraged for them at all.

Ain't that always the way.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 07/07/2011 12:33

I dont seriously believe people who dont need ivf will buy a ticket. Why would they. I dont think people will buy a ticket and think they will win, just as they dont when they buy a normal lotto ticket. Some eople needing IVF and who cant afford it will probably play lotto to win the money to pay for IVF. Its is just the same as people buying a lotto for money ticket. They still deperately want the funds to pay for IVF. This way at least the money raised from the IVF lotto go back into helping other people.

OracleInaCoracle · 07/07/2011 12:42

I'm buying a ticket in the hopes that I will get something that means far more than a big house.

discobeaver · 07/07/2011 12:59

The "eBay auction for a kidney" comment made me think of the guy in China who sold his kidney for an iPad. Probably would have got a better price if he had stuck it on eBay.
Health and fertility are commodities, sadly, not rights.

Deux · 07/07/2011 15:57

There was a case reported recently where a woman threatened to sue her PCT over their refusal to fund her ivf treatment. She claimed that her human rights were being breached. She did get funding. She did have a baby.

And haven't some prisoners been eligible for IVF treatment using the human rights argument?

welshbyrd · 07/07/2011 16:15

Deux Who are you to say that?
Im on my own thread giving my opinion!!!!!

I started this thread for all mums/dads, not just people who want/need IVF

My aunt is desperate for a baby, she had to be sterilized after complications from the birth of her son. Seeing her pain, her constant visits to the doctor to try and get help [he has told her from day one, she will not get any nhs help, as she has already got a child, it does not stop her going there every few months, hoping something has changed] seeing her on long term ADs, because she can not cope with knowing she will not have another child.

If this lotto goes ahead, I know my aunt is going to repeatedly sit at the TV with a glimmer of hope each and every bloody week, the pains she feels is so desperate, by doing this lottery every week if she does not win, she will never come to terms with the facts.

This however, I know is just my aunts position, and not all woman wanting IVF are in the same mindset.

I do not feel the need to campaign, or make an a big stink about this lotto.If it goes ahead, and people are buying tickets Goodluck to them

It does not affect me personally, however, it being a bad idea, is my opinion, and Im bloody well entitled to it, as, is everyone else on the forum

OP posts:
OracleInaCoracle · 07/07/2011 16:32

Deux, I threatened to sue our pct stating that since they left me infertile, they had a bloody cheek saying that I am not eligible and they won't even consider our application. Nada. Just a letter saying "these things happen". Fuckers.

Welshbyrd, I understand what you are saying. I will buy a ticket, not because I think I will win, but because I could. Has your aunt looked into egg sharing to fund ivf?

SloganLogan · 07/07/2011 16:38

When there is no "postcode lottery" as arranged by governments, and a good number of chances of IVF are available to all who need it (as has been recommended) only then would it be reasonable to criticise the IVF lotto. Which is more open and straightforward?

OracleInaCoracle · 07/07/2011 16:47

Sloganlogan, you are absolutely right. There's a lottery now anyway, just one you can't actually by tickets for.

Kendodd · 07/07/2011 16:49

I guess the organisers of this raffle couldn't get an actual baby that they could give away as a prize so thought IVF was the next best thing. Who is running it by the way? is it a fertility clinic?

OracleInaCoracle · 07/07/2011 16:52

Its being run by a charity that helps and advises infertile couples.

Deux · 07/07/2011 17:32

Welshbyrd, keep your pants on. As you so rightly point out this is an open forum and just because you started the thread doesn't mean you can control the content. I think you're talking utter rubbish, but that's just my opinion.

Your ignorance of IVF and infertility is shocking and I think you'd do well to educate yourself a bit more before pontificating.

Your aunt's situation is tragic but don't extrapolate her experience to all other women. And that's how your post read to me. Your assumption that this would be "Playing with people's emotion's each week".

Fwiw, I don't think this lotto will get through the HFEA.

emptyshell · 07/07/2011 18:06

Oh yeah those glimmers of hope and pain...

... no worse than we all already go through each month - you get pretty used to the pain and the hope's long gone if you've been through it.

But hey ho carry on judging and making assumptions and telling those who've lived the nightmare that they're wrong and you know how they feel and what's best better than they do... cos after all - the gals with wonky plumbing don't matter do we?

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