AIBU to wonder why any woman would identify herself as [2]

[garlicnutter]

... not a feminist?

Since I killed the old one.

Do you think that if martin luther king had had sex more he wouldn't have been so huffy about racism

he was terribly oversensitive.

StayFrosty I can't speak for others, but I was not on the thread then - however, if I had been I would probably have pulled people up on it.

Equally, when I and others have been insulted on the feminist boards, other posters have not pulled their fellow feminists up on it - so I guess it is all equal in the end (not the sort of equality I would want - but an equality of sorts)

"my point was all the poor souls who have been hurt and upset by the feminist boards, who can't bear nasty aggressiveness on the internet, have nothing to say about it when it was directed at feminists. And you call yoursepves equalists.... Tut tut."

Actually, the people who have been 'hurt' on the feminist boards weren't the ones being insulting at all. Yes there were insults but most people were saying they would like to discuss feminism but were ignored, belittled, patronised and insulted if they didn't totally agree with all the points being discussed or have a different viewpoint. I have personally experienced all of the above. And I have been called a rape apologist too - not nice when I am a rape survivor

Oh let's cut the crap.

There are about three posters on the fem boards who do the bullying belittling etc stuff. We all know that. They all know that (apart fromt he 3 or so themselves who see themselves as lone purist defenders blah blah) so all others on the boards stop with the Oooobutyousaidshesaidhypocrisy crap.

They are the reason some women are frightened off. Not feminism. Let's just be honest about it.

This is all silly.

I admit it. I do. But only if the poster in question either has a track record of deliberately winding up on the feminist section, or if they're obviously doing so. There was an example referred to on the 1000 post thread which was me - I deliberately patronise a particular poster and she knows exactly why, because I have told her why and have said that I would continue to do it as long as continues her method of debate: she continually pretends that people have said things they haven't said and then argues vociferously against these things. She does it even when it's challenged and pointed out to her that she's doing it, and she doesn't acknowledge that she's done it and carries on doing it. I have offered not to do it, if she stops doing what she does. She hasn't even acknowledged that she does it. But according to the starting point of that thread, I'm a bitch for doing what I do, and her behaviour is OK

I don't acknowledge that I have done it because I don't believe that I have-it has been merely your interpretation and you decided, arbitarily, that you could make that interpretation for everyone. I have no track record-I have only recently made any posts in the feminist section-hence my total shock that it was so bullying. I am not deliberately winding people up-I am making my points-unfortunately they don't appear to fit.

Things have moved on quickly. I thougth Omigawd had an excellent post at he end of the previous thread.

I thought the idea of this thread was to ask a question of people who would not normally post on the feminist boards, and to encourage answers in a more general thread, rather than on a board with a very specific agenda.
It would also prevent anyone on the feminist board thinking they'd been attacked by a pack of marauding trolls and Orcs and the like.
As a feminist (non-specific brand) I have found it an interesting one to read, there's a lot of meat in between the spiky bits.

If my 12 year old dd came home from school and said all the above in bold, I would tell her to grow the fuck up.

"Do you think that if martin luther king had had sex more he wouldn't have been so huffy about racism

he was terribly oversensitive."

Nah - Martin Luther King was getting plenty - he was all "I have a dream" and let's all sit down together is peace and harmony.

He was a terrible sexist though:

"I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood."

Now that Malcolm X on the other hand........

Disclaimer

The above is said with tongue firmly in cheek and is in no way indicative of my real opinions!

I really do not understand the point of all these posts about the feminist section. If this is a thread about people who do not consider themselves to be feminists, and have some other kind of identity, that is all well and good for them to be able to discuss that.

But all this 'well I'm not a feminist because X person on the feminist section said this to me' is just bizarre. I don't see what that has got to do with whether anybody is a feminist or not. What feminism means is very well known and is not defined by a group of people on a section on MN.

If we were having a discussion about why people do not themselves as vegans, there would not be lots of people saying 'well I'm a vegan because I went on the chicken keepers section and person X said this to me.'

I prefer not to mention names for then one does indeed enter the realms of personal attack. I just want it clear that it isn't the sodding boards in general and posters or indeed feminism that puts women off. Women that could be loved and helped into the fold and the path of enlightenment. Waste waste waste.

As I think i said earlier, when people don;t like the message they attack the way it's delivered.

I think Hully's right. There are a couple of people who get overheated and aggressive. I find it depressing in the extreme that we are constantly talking about them and not the issues. As I also said earlier, until such time as my daughter does not have to be twice as good as my son to be equal to him, and women are no longer told that it is their fault that their men hit them or have affairs (and that has been said on mumsnet) i will continue to be a feminist.

Hully - I totally agree but we can't name them - cos then we'd be rounded on by the followers

I love reading the feminist threads, most are reasonable and balanced - I would participate if it weren't for the very few (though one of them has refused to acknowledge me for years, not that I mind about that)

I don't see how I have a 'track record'-I seem to have responded to 17 discussions on feminist threads, spread from last Feb-many of them one post. I decided to compare this to my responses to AIBU and I got bored counting after 80 posts-I fail to see how I get a track record from that-other than I can't write anything under my name that will be taken seriously. I can see why people name change.

Who was telling a child that they were a potential rapist? That is a very strange thing to do

"He's already being told that he is a potential rapist for goodness sake! And he's only 7!"

He was told that??

Milly - the point is that some women don't call themselves feminists because of what they (wrongly) have been told feminism means (Dworkin, dungarees and separatism etc shorthand but you get the drift). A lot of women don't have access to educated debate, newspapers etc. Then, if they do come to MN and start getting interested, and posting tentaive thoughts and ideas on the fem boards, they are shot down which simply confirms all the wrong prejuciced thoughts they did have.

As said before, it's a handful pf posters, but they tend to dominate.

I think quite a few posters have said that they are not a feminist of the MN feminist board variety, but thought of themselves as feminist in other ways, and that their view of themselves had been challenged on the feminist boards here and left them cross and confused.
Then the discussions have rambled far and wide with many women with many different opinions posting.
So it's not as simple as ' a thread about people who do not consider themselves to be feminists' Some do, some don't, some think they are arguing for equality of the sexes and that includes being a feminist.