AIBU to wonder why any woman would identify herself as [2]

[garlicnutter]

... not a feminist?

Since I killed the old one.

Do you? Eh? Why?

Who told him that, misty?

"There are about three posters on the fem boards who do the bullying belittling etc stuff. We all know that. They all know that (apart fromt he 3 or so themselves who see themselves as lone purist defenders blah blah) so all others on the boards stop with the Oooobutyousaidshesaidhypocrisy crap.

They are the reason some women are frightened off. Not feminism. Let's just be honest about it."

Also agreed. As I said in an earlier post though, it's not the bullying itself, its the way in which it is perpetrated (by one poster in particular). If it was viscous name calling or outright nastiness it would be easier to ignore, but it comes across as so damn reasonable and when you attempt to pull them up on it, they make out like they are the victim, so you end up questioning whether it was really bullying at all (but as other people have said they felt the same, then it must be)

What's even more galling is how often they get praised for changing other people's minds and 'enlightening' them about feminism. The less rational and less charitable side of me ends up thinking "great - another little radical feminist has been created - just what the world needs". Luckily my rational self soon puts those thoughts in their place.

If a woman came onto the Relationships board saying that her partner was treating her that way, but everyone else seemed to love him and think he was great, she would be told that she was being emotionally abused!

Those of us with DSs will know that boys don't mature as quickly as girls and are generally very loving and sensitive. I remember it was my brother who was going to marry my mother and live with her forever when he was about 5yrs old-it wasn't me. When do lovely little boys become a power hungry part of the patriarchy? I just haven't found it yet.

"TBH, I don't know what people want others to do really, is anyone actually changing their minds about anything in this?"

Why does it need to be about changing minds - why can't it be about finding common ground?

There seems to have been quite a bit of that.

Hully, yes I can understand that, but I don't think the feminist section is there to convince as many people as possible to become feminists. That might be the reason why some people go on that section, but I do not think people who post on there are obliged to try and convert others.

I'm there to talk about my own issues as a woman, not to convince random people on the internet to join me.

But a lot of people do treat it as if it some sort of feminism 101 service where we would all be eager to demonstrate XYZ to any poster who comes along. I'm not the librarian/researcher of feminism. If people want an information site because they're not sure if they are a feminist or not, they should go to one. This is a web forum for discussion, not convert's corner.

Lenin, as Hully said, it's a waste.
I hate the examples I've seen and see on a daily basis of women putting women down for all sorts of reasons.
Constant nit-picking about appearance, relationships, hobbies and activities education either too much or not enough, parenting and anything else.
The infighting wastes the opportunities to effect change, and women are doing it to each other.
As I said before, I've seen the things I fought against crawling back into children's lives, and the things I fought for eroded and distorted. Not all of them, but enough to think WTF?
I thought we'd be further along than this by now.

Not keen on making this personal. It's not necessary.

Did I miss out 'in real life' I think I did.
Just in case anyone thought I was only referring to the little corner of the world that is MN.

Milly -That is really sad.

If someone came to me with a question or thought I hope I would take the time and trouble and show the love and courtesty of one human being to another. Ok, I get it now. That sucks.

Lenin - I am a feminist, if someone calls me a manhater etc, I will try and work with them to change that view. Confrontation produces nothing but entrenchment in original prejudices. Come on, you know that.

Don't go LG

Can I tempt you to stay with chocolate?

It is what has been said a number of times on the board and fair enough. If they are a discussion group, they don't have to be feminism 101 for everyone. Sparky is a fairly new visitor and has been treated with politeness and consideration and had answers given to many of her questions.

Milly - On further thought, perhaps because it is a part of MN, I have the same kind of expectations of it as any other part, as Lenin keeps saying, the same rules apply. This bugger off and educate yourself attitude is not acceptable. People educate each other all the time on every other section. They aask for help/advice and mostly they get it. Oh the huge irony that the feminist section if the one that says fuck that, not us guv, we're too busy chewing the party fat. No?

Hully, but you're making the assumption that because somebody is a regular poster on the feminist section that they actually have the answer to these questions and can help these people. I probably know less about feminism that the people asking the questions. And a lot of the time people aren't wanting a courteous or loving answer - some of them just want to fight.

I'm on the feminist section because I find it a space where I get psychological support from people talking about women and what happens to them as if it maters, and being in such a space has helped me work through a lot of stuff that has gone on in my life.

Yet I'm named on the other thread as if I am responsible for the reception other people get and explaining feminism to them. I really don't know any more about it than the people asking the questions.

But all this 'well I'm not a feminist because X person on the feminist section said this to me' is just bizarre.

I've not seen that on the parts of the thread I have been on. I've seen plenty of "I'm a feminist, but I don't post on the fem boards because of some posters", I've seen "I don't consider myself to be a feminist." What I've not seen is "I used to be a feminist, but someone was mean to me so now I'm not."

Feel free to point me to the posts that have as I don't profess to have read everthing on the original post.

I can see hiw it could be derailling

Eg if on one of the teacher strike threads there had ben a poster popping up asking things like, 'what is a union? Why are teachers in unions? How many unions are there? Who started unions' etc etc when posters wanted ti discuss whether or not public sector pensions were still viable in the current economic climate

I can understand the temptation to provide links and say, go read up fgs

Agree Lenin, and the fact that I have a teenage son is only part of the reason that I'm uncomfortable with some of the attitudes to them. But dislike and fear of teenage boys is everywhere.

The SN board isn't like that though, and we answer the same sort of questions over and over again to new visitors with concerns and questions.

Named, Milly?

Well, I don't think I have anything new to say. I'll just carry on banging the lonely old love drum and talking shite all over the place. I think I'm just too old for all of it.