AIBU to wonder why any woman would identify herself as [2]

[garlicnutter]

... not a feminist?

Since I killed the old one.

Dittany - All this is about is you calming down a bit and accepting all women no matter how far up the feminist pole they are -
Feminism is not like mathematics; 2 plus 2 will always equal 4 - end of - but you can't treat feminism in that way. It isn't 'one thing' some women will identify with parts of it and reject others - there is no right or wrong -

Did you get it Dittany? Because if you did why did you continue to play the 'game' and protract the whole thing? You could have said, OK I get it, I am/am not going to change because..... but you didn't. You just badgered Lenin to name names and then you had a go at her for it.

I was feeling sympathy for you because I think the naming only needs saying once. Lenin summed it up. She summed it up without bullying or nastiness. When I started to write that post there appeared to be a danger that loads of others would pile in, as several had, and say yes it's all Dittany's fault. Thankfully that didn't happen too much because it only needed saying once.

Besides, those who found you hard to deal with for whatever reason are not here because they wanted to have a pop at you personally. This was all started by Seeker who wanted to know why people don't identify with the title of feminist. Nobody set out to bring you down. I think in saying that we were uncomfortable with the feminism section, there started to be a common thread and you appear to be it. I didn't even think about personalities when I first posted on here tbh so it really isn't all about you, or wasn't and if it isn't now, I think you had a part to play in making it that way.

But anyway, I told you you wouldn't want my sympathy.

I give up. It's hopeless.

Lots of people saying the same thing (mostly nicely) doesn't = bullying, it equals the same experieince.

Calling it "bullying" is just playing the eternal victim card and sidestepping the actual issue. As per.

I agree saf - except that mostly the complete bigotted nutters don't get any back-up!

I still say the intention (to stop the experience of feeling blah blah felt by many) was valid and shouldn't be lost under a general slinging of you said she said you bullied you bullied.

Or it really has all been totally pointless!

I think we expect bigotted nutters on the rest of MN, SAF.
That's half the fun.

I think most of us expect the feminism section to get on and be respectful of one another because we are all women. That doesn't mean no disagreement, that means not being treated like a naughty little girl because you don't agree with someone else's opinion on something where there is no one definition or philosophy. And that wasn't another pop at Dittany - it was more about there appearing to be factions within feminism which are hard to understand, especially for an outsider.

Ageed BTW SaF. There were lots of feminist board regulars disagreeing with dittany's views on the Bristol Palin thread for example.

i left the mn the other night[not because of this thread]
but ive rejoined to say this and im going again.
i agree with a lot that lenin has said-and ive said myself that some off this thread has raised some good points[and the other thread]
which are[i feel]some women are scared to go to the feminist section and voice a oppinion!
i feel this is wrong and quite shameful really considering its a feminist section.
[ive said this earlier]
i feel that if through this thread there is now some women that feel they can go to the feminist section-well-this can only be a good thing.
i also feel that theres some mischeviousness been going on a bit[maybe only a little bit]which is-"lets pitt the feminists against each other"-this is wrong!
there is now women on "both sides"[there shouldnt be sides-we all women]
who are feeling bad for having views-and feeling that they have "let others down"-this is wrong!
the whole point of feminism is for women to be heard-not having to fight with each other/feel scared of speaking/feel bad because they feel them let others down-THIS IS NOT WHAT FEMINISM IS ABOUT-and it makes me feel fuckin sad-the whole lot!
also-i feel that Dittany is being used as the mn feminism scapegoat.
can we stop this please.
everytime theres a disagreement/argument-its always dittany that gets it in the neck.this is wrong-its like "oh shes very outspoken-it dont matter if we keep pulling her out of the hat"-shes a bloody human being-with faults-because we all have faults!!
yeah-i orriggannly had a terriffic run in with her when i joined[in fact it was spattaccillar] but it is thanks to her that i stayed.
despite our fight with each other-she has never stored anything up against me or belittled me-in fact when we was fighting i cant remember her belittling me[and i said some awful things to her]
i come to really respect dittany-her fight for women and girls is tottally 100%
people dont always see this though-they just pick at the other bits!
it now looks like there is going to be a fight between dittany and lenin.
i repect both these women highly-yep-they both have diffrent approaches but neither of them is wrong.
please dont fight with each other[lenin and dittany]
you are both feminists and the fight isnt with each other-it shouldnt be like this should it.
dont fight with each other-this is what some want!
this thread will end and another come up-and we all be fighting with each other.this isnt feminism is it?

well that's a relief...

But if it helps I'll give an example of the kind of thing I mean.

a. All rape victims should be believed
b. but er, what about innocent until proven guilty?
a. You are a misogynist. What are you doing on the fem board? You are not allowed to say that here
b. oh. but I'm not a woman-hater, I just think it's dangerous to say all men are rapists.
a. misogynist.

etc
That's what people are talking about.

I don't think I can look at anything else, I don't think I can cope. I need to do fluff and jollity for a while.

But I really do only wish good and inclusivity and going into the sunlight together.

"i also feel that theres some mischeviousness been going on a bit[maybe only a little bit]which is-"lets pitt the feminists against each other"-this is wrong!"

I quite agree.

Swallowedafly

There are threads all over mn about ADHD being made up and why the fuck should disabled people have special treatment through disabled toilets and dla benefits and why can't I call my mate a retard cos it's funny. So I understand your example totally.

But I hope what I do (and I speak only for myself here) is to try and sense the intent of the poster. The shit stirrers get short shrift. But those who ask questions because they want to understand I hope (I hope!) I treat sensibly, even if it is the squillionth time I have answered that. I try to recall how uninformed I was twenty years ago.

New floor - sounds good -
I bought another Pauls Boutique bag on Saturday - it cost me £65 and looks tacky and trashy - I love it.

There is no conflict between the legal concept of innocent until proven guilty and believing all rape victims until it is proven otherwise IMO.

Innocent until proven guilty is simply a legal framework that means the accused cannot be incarcerated or otherwise punished until it is proven beyond all reasonable doubt that he/she has committed the crime in question.

It is quite possible to hold this principle in high regard while also taking the viewpoint that all victims should be believed. Believing the victim does not carry any legal consequences for the accused. It simply means that a victim is treated as victim until the case ends up in court and is settled.

Less than 6% of rape allegations are false.

I don't have a bag or a new floor

Actually I do have just the one bag, but I've gone off it as my friend was very rude about it the other day.

Swallowed congratulations on your new floor.

My eldest has just gone on his first holiday alone (not a family holiday). I am a pathetic heap and am mostly eating chocolate.

Saf - glad you've got your floor

Pag - Exactly. The tone and the intent are so important. Instead of jumping in and lashing out, I tend to take a step back and try and look a the post from the posters POV, rightly or wrongly, I find it's better to assume that it's a genuine post, that you can ask questions about and then 'educate' the mis-informed.