To be a bit depressed by these figures regarding childcare

[menazovut]

I'm a teacher near the top of the main scale with a (small) management point, so in other words respectable pay. Money is tight though, plus working 3 days isn't great for professional development so I thought I'd pick up a 4th day. I've just calculated that certain months the extra childcare would be MORE than the extra pay, depending on how days fall that month. This taking into account tax, childcare vouchers etc.

It seems like madness that with a very decent job it's still not work my while to work. Many of my friends are in the position were they simply can't afford to work, with ONE child of nursery age. It feels a bit like the balance has gone.

The conclusion we all came to around 2003 is that we can have it but not all at the same time, if you want babies the career goes on hold for a while, people arent really jealous of the poor sods slaving away for less than £16,000 are they ? That's how little you must be earning to receive help with childcare hardly a fortune.

that is all true BUT- you make your choices don't you?

I could not go back to the type of teaching job I first had 35 years ago as I have not kept up my CPD, but it was my choice.
I just get tired of people who choose to have children complaing about the cost of someone looking after them so they can work, and by implication, suggesting we all pay for that choice through our taxes.

Well yes and no Strawberry. We do choose of course. However other countries have far better childcare systems set up for working parents. Much cheaper, better qualified and regulated, better opening hours etc etc.

What the government have done at the moment though is take away that childcare subsidy from the middle earners - the ones who were in effect having a bit of their tax 'back' towards childcare. The ones who were still making a net profit in terms of tax etc. Although you could argue I guess that if you keep one parent home someone else woudl just do that job to the same tax benefit but not sure that is particularly fair.

Teaching three days a week (main scale, no TLR) I bring home about £1100 a month. Full time I would bring home about £1800.

I have DC (4) in nursery two days a week. 15 of those hours a week are funded. We pay £114 a month for the other 4 hours a week and the hours in the school holidays (which we have to pay for despite not needing them, a full daycare place means holidays too). A relative has DS for free on the other day each week.

If I worked full time, there would be no more funded hours. So I would have to pay £350 a month childcare for four days a week, instead of for two days (part funded). I would also lose all tax credits and start having to pay my student loan back at almost £200 a month (pre-1997 student loan system, I currently don't pay anything).

So in total, that would mean £550 more in outgoings and the loss of about £50 pm in TC. So it would not be worth me working full time. It certainly would not be worth me working full time if I didn't have a relative to look after my child one day a week.

I think I'm lucky to be able to work and afford any childcare at all tbh. I wouldn't want nursery staff paid any less than they are now. I think they should be paid more, but I certainly couldn't afford it and I'm on pretty good money.

I don't know what the answer is.

Sounds like you have all the answers KK, it's working perfectly for you.

Yes, that's what I mean. It works for me as long as I only have one child, and a relative who can help. I'm lucky, although it took me two years to find a p/t job and obviously I had to pay more for childcare before my child turned three.

I meant I don't know what the answer is for all the people who are really struggling.

But surely the point kk is making (and which I agree with entirely) is that the system is a DISincentive to work more or earn more. There is a point at which you cross a line, as she describes, and you find that you are working longer/harder/in a better/more pressurised job, and yet in real terms, your remuneration goes down! How can anybody possibly think that's ok?!

That is exactly the point I was making. I am lucky because my 'line' is one where I can earn good money, and spend two days a week with child.

Other people's 'line' means they are backed into not working at all.

And it's the money you have available to you in real terms which counts. Its so easy to be dismissive of people who appear to be on high incomes, but the reality is that a couple on say, £60k but paying £2k or £3k (after tax!) on nursery, and then another grand or more on rent or mortgage, plus travel costs for work (ever bought a season ticket or filled up a petrol tank lately?) may have less money available to them each month than someone earning far less and working fewer hours, who gets most of their childcare paid plus all the other add ons which can come with a low income.
And the fundamental point is that this is an extremely precarious position for society have reached, and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if we're in for a major backlash. Particularly given the current climate of slashing the long term pension benefits of many middle earning jobs to boot. If I were 15 years younger and setting out on my family now, id be seriously tempted to work as few hours as possible in a low pressure and rake in as Many tax credits as possible. Of course, the irony is that THAT situation isn't sustainable either-what a bloody mess, frankly!

But OP the first 15 hours of nursery care are paid for anyway- do you not take advantage of that?

This is a huge improvement on when my DCs were young- they are now 20s- and there was no funding whatsoever for pre school care.

Most people either use extended family for child care if they can- or pay for care and accept that for a few years they may not be much better off but they are keeping their career on track, for when the kids go to school.

I agree it is a problem, but the whole country is financially fucked thanks to the last government who squandered every penny, and will be for at least one generation.

I'd rather my tax went tot he sick, old and those who are in dire need than a mum who wants to work 4 days instead of 3, and bleats about childcare costs.

strawberry- 15 hours free is only for 3-4 year olds. My son is one.

I like the way a debate turns into 'bleating' if you disagree with it! I am, like others, commenting on the fact that the current system is a disincentive for me to work. It's not so much I WANT to work, it surprises me that anyone could be better off not working than working.

I am a nursery worker and get paid 6 pound and my manager 6.55. Most actually under school age children are on that type of wage and it is a lot lower paid than teaching, even with similar qualifications.

Similar qualifications to a teacher? Really?So at the very least, you will have a good honours degree and a PGCE (secondary) or a B.Ed. (primary). Why not use your similar qualifications to teach? Oh wait...

I agree with the poster who said it would be a good idea if workplaces had nearby creche's or linked up with creche's to provide cheaper rates to workers, but can't see that ever happening on a wide scale.

Is all very disheartening, and tbh, until I had DC (18 months ago) I had NO IDEA there were these sorts of issues out there for people! I now have had my eyes opened with my own experiences.

Why is this not a more campaigned about topic? Only have heard mothers of young children mention it; never in the news, from men or from older generations.

I earn £30k a year pro rata for four days a week - so £24k. My mum looks after my boys one day a week and they go to a childminder three days a week - for £1197 a month. I do get childcare vouchers, which helps a bit, but my take home salary is £1367 a month. Travel is £180 a month. Do you see where I'm going with this?

I'm a journalist and I have worked really hard, in a very competitive industry, for years, to get my job. But I think I'm going to have to give up. And then that's it - my career has gone, because there's no such thing as a career break in magazines; if you go to the loo for too long, you're forgotten.

I'm sad that it's come to this and also scared about what I'm going to do in the future when my children are older and I want to go back to work. Not sure what the answer is, but subsidised childcare does seem to be one solution...

I had a good job with a decent salary before dc.

Now I earn £6.25ph working 4 nights a wk and having dc during the day.
Apart from the obvious lack of sleep and career, we are financially better off than having to pay for all the childcare we would need.

I actually can't see if I will get my career back on track. Once dc start school, we will still have school runs and holidays to worry about. I know people manage but dp's wage is commission based and if he has a bad month, we would really struggle to pay childcare, especially over school holidays.

Do people really have relatives on hand to do regular childcare?

Both mine and dp's parents work full time and are only early 50's so not near retirement etc. I'm 30, I can't be the only one who's parents can't help?
Not that I expect them too, could I just point out!

I know what you mean, Acceptableintheeighties. My mum looks after DS one day a week. Which saves me loads, I know I'm lucky. She works the other four days a week.

However, I am the only one out of my friends who doesn't have their mum available for 24/7 childcare! It seems everyone else's mum has either retired, or never worked