To be a bit depressed by these figures regarding childcare

[menazovut]

I'm a teacher near the top of the main scale with a (small) management point, so in other words respectable pay. Money is tight though, plus working 3 days isn't great for professional development so I thought I'd pick up a 4th day. I've just calculated that certain months the extra childcare would be MORE than the extra pay, depending on how days fall that month. This taking into account tax, childcare vouchers etc.

It seems like madness that with a very decent job it's still not work my while to work. Many of my friends are in the position were they simply can't afford to work, with ONE child of nursery age. It feels a bit like the balance has gone.

Life is full of choices. Tough one I am sure. I have 4 children but made choice to work part time /nights or accept a lower income while children were young.
Don't think tax payers should be subsidising it

Bettydrapers - yours is exactly the kind of situation I was referring to.
And in the past, no doubt the thought of holding down a worthwhile respected professional role (nursing in your particular case) and acquiring long term security through a pension, would have justified the short term struggles.
Nowadays, professions like nursing and teaching no longer gain public respect, and the govt are screwing your pension by radical changing the terms you signed up to.
Thats why I think there will be a massive shift in thinking in the coming months and years. The very well off will be ok. The low paid and part timers will get tax credits, housing benefits etc. Those in the middle might just decide that they are no better off in more pressurised jobs, where they carry responsibility and work long hours and frankly aren't getting the rewards to make it worth their while

How is childcare £170 per week, surely for this it should be 1-2-1 ratio considering the low pay nursery staff are on?

My best friend and I paid another friend £40 each per week! Could never have afforded to work other wise!

£170 is absolutely the norm. £40 a week isn't!

Am watching this thread with interest

TBH having tried about 15 nurseries over the past 10 years and I kid you not found 1 which was/is fantastic I would ask why put yourself through the stress and hassel of working with young children ? We aren't bloody super woman, lower your standards and spend the time with your children, have them close together so the impact isn't too bad and just enjoy these years.
I worked when mine were small and i'd give back every penny to do it all again, I've just been offered a £60k job which i'm turning down because it's not right for the family and I'm really happy with that decision.

I hate to state the obvious but if you want to work and have kids then you have to pay for their care.

it's no one else's responsibility.

I used to teach. I worked part time so my kids never needed child care- I waited until they were school age- 4 & 6- before going back part time.

This is what lots of mums do.

What's your situation?

You also need to take on board that one day your kids will need a minimal amount of child care and as a teacher you will have long holidays to be with them.

You should also be aware that you are keeping your hand in with work and allowing your career to keep going, so that you have a better chance of full time work later if that is what you choose.

I always fitted my work in around my kids. I turned down lots of promotions simply because they did not fit with child care.

maybe you are simply being unrealistic.

£170 ???? It's £200 a week in some areas and not ones filled with millionaires either.

I live in Essex and it's more than £170 a week here. One nursery close to us is £230 a week for under 2s. They have the usual staff/child ratios and an excellent ofsted report.

Paying your friend £40 is basically babysitting IMO. She may be fabulous and doing lots of activities in which case she should get ofsted registered and be a child minder.

I have a reasonably well paid job in local government (£20-25ooo bracket) and I could probably only afford one child. If we were to have two, my DP would probably give up his job as we couldn't afford to put two children in nursery.

We manage by never being home at the same time! Dh has Mon and Tues at home with dd and I have Sat and Sun home with her. She goes to a CM Wed-Fri - and only in term time. This means that we pay about £360 per month for childcare and both of us can work FT (and not have to live in a tent in the park, as my dh always says). Luckily, as a teacher, I can spend the school hols with dd (and dh when he's home) and having term time only with our CM we 'save' £1150 per year. This is needed as we don't qualify for any govt support other than child benefit and we bought (I know, our decision) our house at the top of the market on a 100% mortgage - ouch.

A colleague of mine just came back to work and as her dh also has weekends off and she was refused part time, she had to go for a full time nursery place. She can't afford it and has handed her notice in - not the only reason, but the biggie.

Small differences in personal circumstances can make a huge difference.

I think there's anassumption that 'dropping to part time hours,' or taking time out and getting a job after 6,7 years at home is an easy option, itisn't.

I have been a SAHM to my three girls for 6 years now and am currently on tenterhooks awaiting a possible callcentre job working evenings, weekends, Xmas day, nightshifts to fit around caring for my kids. It is sooo competitive.

The job is £14,000 pro rata - less thanhalf of what usedto earn and voniderably less interesting. But that's life, I suppose.

sovery because I worked in further ed in order to fit in with my kids, and my hours were 9- 2 ish.

I made a hard decision not to go into a secondary school because I didn't want to pay for child care- or leave them with anyone when they were ill. I was their mum and felt that was my job. In FE I had an understanding line manager who allowed me time off unpaid if they were ill.

The nearest Nursery to me is £62 per day, so that's £310 a week if full time. My son goes further afield for cheaper rates so I have a longer commute. It's £47 a day, expensive but not compared to prices around elsewhere. Now if they're open 10 hours a day (8-6) and their staff earn £6 per hour, or £60 per day and they have a 3-1 ratio which is rarely kept to surely it's a decent business?

I couldn't afford to not work, it may be little but it would tip the balance. 3 days seems to be optimal pay-wise.

OP I really think you should stop whingeing.
Presumably your children will start full time school when they are rising 5?
that means you can then work as much as you like and may only need to pay a small amount for child care after school.

I know lots of teachers/mums and don't know any who worked full time when their kids were young UNLESS they had partners who worked from home or could work from home/be at home when DCs were ill etc etc.

A teacher's salary is not huge and 3 days a week is going to put you on around what- £10-£12K?

don't know what you teach but if you want extra money, tutoring privately at home after school can bring in quite a lot of money or working as an examiner for GCSe etc if you are qualified.

sovery- i think you are alittle confused.

If youread my previous post you will see that I did not start work until my oldest was 6 and my youngest was 4. I had 7 non-earning years after I married.

The reason I did not work was because I had no family to hand and my DH was working 12 hour days, often abroad in the middle east or the US for a week or two at a time, and I was looking after DCs on my own.

sovey about 6 posts up the thread.

I used to teach. I worked part time so my kids never needed child care- I waited until they were school age- 4 & 6- before going back part time.

sovery is your last post aimed at me?
if so, you are wrong again as i didn't suggest that.

I did that- and it was over 20 years ago.

I never went back into schools full time and developed my teaching career in a different way.

Child care was the main reason- and energy levels. teaching in a secondary school and being an almost single parent due to DH's job was not my idea of fun.

I think the OP wants it all ways.

You are very lucky if you can afford childcare, and live in London on a 0.6 post.

In some ways I regret not working more- we are comfortable but we live SE- and had I worked more we would be in the 2nd home league.

I do not really see the point of the &OP's* post TBH.

What she is saying is that on a 0.8 teacher's salary she would not be any better off due to child care costs.
okay. so what?

Either work full time, or wait until the DCs are older and in school then go full time or do the extra day.

Is that so terrible?

Btw the £170 is only for 4 days childcare. I work 4 ten hour shifts a week.

Well yes, but that's life.

and it is not forever- a point which neither you nor she have accepted.

Nursery is for a short time only .

Then she can work as much as she likes and child care costs will plummet.

Our childcare costs are currently £350 a week

I still bring home a tiny bit on top of that luckily. However I am looking to the long term - in 3 years they will all be in school and I will only have to pay much cheaper after school club a few times a week.

I will also be much further up the pay scale than I would have been if I had stayed home (hopefully). I have nearly doubled my salary in the 5 years since having DS1 for example (am lucky I know).

I think you have to think more than immediate costs. And weigh up what is important to you - is career progression important at the moment?