AIBU To think it is unfair that English students pay fees to study in Scotland?

[Pang]

I think it is unfair that English students are paying fees to attend ScotTish Universities when other EU students do not. Scottish parliment is now allowing Universities to charge English students up to £9000 to prevent them from "flooding" Scotland but other EU students still pay nothing.

How can this happen when England is part of the EU? Itn't this discrimination? Is this legal?

vmcd,
that's silly. English is not a race and this thread is not about race. It's about fairness.

So it's "silly" that people say it's discrimination against the english and that the scots get more money per head than the English? That's suggesting it's because they're English that they're being charged fees. No, it's nothing to do with being English, actually.

read somewhere that scots pay something like 9 billion into the government pot but get something like 8 billion back to spend as it see fit. Interesting if anyone can provide the stats. Barnet formula and anti -scots bitching n all that.

vmcd: What is it about then? England= fees, The rest of the EU = no fees!
England,Germany, France and other EU countries charge their nationals and other nationals fees.

YABU.

If England's part of the EU we should be helping bail out Greece the same way we helped bailed out Ireland.

Lachesis - The UK is part of the EU but not part of the Euro zone. As part of the EU some British money is going toward the Greek bail out. But not as much as other countries because we protected ourselves by keeping the £ and not joining the Euro. But this is a separate issue.

Is it? I don't see it as such. But you obviously do. The sooner Scotland gains its independence, the better, IMO.

regains, that is. Because the populace never supported reunification, anyway, they were sold out by English lords allowed to sell them out.

Pang - move to Scotland, simples - your kids will have free uni tuition.

This discussion is going nowhere.

Scottisheducation system has long since been devolved issue.

Is it also not unfair that an English university would charge a Scottish student thousands to study there? Works both ways.

Residency req for fees in Scotland meanthe student needs to have ordinarily resided there for 3 years prior to starting their course ( including the previous year) - then fees normally get paid via SAAS.

Graciescotland, thank you for pointing me in the direction of the University of Groningen. In the past I've found European studies/law in English (Maastricht) and obviously business studies/economics in various places (usually American private universities though), oh and one engineering course in Leuven (which they are only allowed to give because they offer exactly the same course in Dutch) but they do have a couple more in Groningen at bachelor level.

Excepting private universities, each US state has its own residency requirements with regards to paying in-state tuition (with exceptions for the children of and/or former military personnel who may have been stationed in the particular state at one time).

No one finds this unfair, as, as cathafallingstar points out, education in each state is devolved to a certain extent and funding granted accordingly.

If you wish to attend a state university as a resident and have no prior military history, you are welcome to move there and live there for the period required for you to meet residency requirements.

Otherwise, you pay out-of-state fees.

I sympathise with english students having to pay fees, full stop. But blame the Government that was voted in by an English majority, which had very little support in Scotland (but which we are suck with anyway, bit like the Thatcher years all over again) I am very grateful for devolution (for which I voted)

I have to say, though, as a Scottish student who applied to vet school many years ago , it was well known that very few Scottish students would even be considered for the English universities. There were 5 vet schools in Britain at the time (now 6, or possibly 7??), 3 in england and 2 in Scotland. I applied to all, with top grades, and having done A-levels (which aren't usually done in Scottish schools) and got interviews at glasgow and Edinburgh, but outright rejections from their English counterparts. I wasn't surprised. At Edinburgh, where I finally studied, there were more English and Foreign students than Scottish ones. I've yet to meet a Scottish vet who got a place at an English vet school (although I'm sure there will have been a token few)

So it does seem ironic that the English are whinging about being unable to come up and use our free, devolved education, when it seemed to be policy that very very few Scots were ever allowed inside their hallowed university walls when they did have free tertiary education. If English students could study here for free of course everyone and anyone would be applying, which would bog down the system and mean that many SCots would have to go elsewhere (and pay) despite wanting to stay in Scotland. Unless we just do what the English universities seemed to do in the 90s and say you can come here for free, but only accept a meagre handfuk of students, for no discernible reason....

YABU!!

Pang, I said it's not about being ENGLISH. You argued back saying England = fees. England and English are two different things.

its not anti-english though is i

Its anti-bangaideshi/somali/american/french/scottish:

If you live in England, its a geographical discrimination.

The Scottish Parliament want to charge EU students but cannot because the westminster government signed up to these EU rules

YABVU!!!!! If a scottish person studies in england they will have to pay fees the same as an English person. You should be looking at why education is at such a high price in England instead of being pissed off that another country is getting something for "free".

Another thread where the moaners don't actually care what the reasons are for something. They've just come on to whine

I accept the point made by something witty(twice) which says "The Scottish Parliament want to charge EU students but cannot because the westminster government signed up to these EU rules." So it is not discrimination.
Question answered! Hurray !

Hey, No hard feeling to all you angry people out there. This forum is for discussions/debates.

pointydog the reason some English A level students study in Scotland instead of resitting their A levels is due to the UCAS points table and because A levels are of a higher level than Scottish highers. First year at university in Scotland is equivalent to A level standard.

A lot of English students who come to Scotland have excellent A level results I'm not denying that.

When I was a student people with lower than expected A level results had to make a choice between resitting their A levels (another year at home with the folks), going to a Polytechnic/College with lower entrance requirements or studying at a University in Scotland.

What would you choose to do in those circumstances?

Are you denying that those are the options available in those circumstances?

Most Scottish students have gone on to do Advanced Higher. I'm not sure what you mean by 'instead of resitting a levels'. I went to a very good scottish uni and I didn't come acorss english people with crap A level results

pointydog I went to a 'good' University too, my partner at the time had DDE in his A levels instead of his expected BBB, he got into University through clearing by the skin of his teeth. I only knew his A level results from his mum, he would never have admitted it to anyone else. Are you sure that you didn't know anyone with poor A level results?

nolembit; on the last page you said you went to Strathclyde. I'm not saying Strathclyde isn't a "good" University, but it's not Russell Group. The Russell Group Unis in Scotland are Edinburgh and Glasgow. I'm not convinced people get into them with poor A level results. St Andrews is debateable as Prince William got into it, despite poor A levels, but Catherine Middleton had AAB at A level and she didn't go straight into 2nd year. Aberdeen isn't Russell Group, but it is an "Ancient" - founded in 1495. I went there and didn't know anyone who went straight into second year.

The Times University Guide places 28 UK University in the top 200 worldwide; five of these are Scottish, which suggests that Scotland punches above its weight, University wise, as Scotland has only one-twelfth the population of the UK.

Edinburgh at no. 40 (5th in the UK)
St Andrews at no. 103 (14th in UK)
Glasgow at no. 128 (17th in UK)
Dundee at no. 140 (19th in UK)
Aberdeen at no. 149 (21st in UK)

I don't think anyone (Prince William excepted) gets into any of those five with poor A levels.

AberdeenAngusina Scotland is not just Glasgow and Edinburgh, both of which I had unconditional acceptances to BTW.

I choose to study at Strathclyde as it offered the only course of it's kind in Western Europe, to 26 students per year selected by personal interview. We had several A level students with AAAA enter directly into 2nd year. It may only be 6th in the league of Scottish Universities and 29th in the UK but that is still a 'good' university.

You may not have known anyone with poorer A levels but that doesn't mean they weren't there.

You may not have known anyone with direct entry into 2nd year but that doesn't mean it does not happen. If you look at the entrance requirements for any Scottish University there is an option for 2nd Year entry with A Levels or HND, however you need to have studied subjects relevant to the degree. If you have AAA in English, French and German you are unlikely to get 2nd year entry onto Applied Physics!