AIBU To think it is unfair that English students pay fees to study in Scotland?

[Pang]

I think it is unfair that English students are paying fees to attend ScotTish Universities when other EU students do not. Scottish parliment is now allowing Universities to charge English students up to £9000 to prevent them from "flooding" Scotland but other EU students still pay nothing.

How can this happen when England is part of the EU? Itn't this discrimination? Is this legal?

And how does that read in English?

I don't want to put words in others' mouths but I think that five's spectacular spell of typos was meant to be:

Scottish mps helped push it through parliament

PTA, because they cannot charge Irish or Dutch students, when universities in Ireland and Netherlands charge their own students. The only students in the whole of the EU who have to pay Scottish universities are from Wales, England and Northern Ireland, the rest go free regardless of fees in their home countries.

OAFT.

On Private school fees I will veer of topic just to say, if you can't afford private school fees then you can choose simple instalments by moving near a good state school and have a huge mortgage.

back to topic, if you don't like fees just take your planet-sized brain to the EU and get educated there.

The fact that Scottish students don't have to pay isn't unfair. Scotland has a devolved government that can choose how to spend it's money, so if it chooses to fund Scottish students it has the right to do so. It doesn't have the any juristiction over students from other UK nations, so couldn't fund them if it wanted to (which it obviously wouldn't).

The unfair bit is in charging Welsh/English/Northern Irish students but NOT EU students. I don't see how that can be justified, and will surely only lead to bad feeling.

It's not that simple though AlcoPop. Whilst there are many Masters programmes in English throughout Europe, the number of bachelor programmes in English is limited (well at least in countries around here - I'm in Belgium). I'm not sure where all the English students are heading to in the Netherlands if they haven't brushed up on their Dutch.

new port - but the Scottish devolved Government can only make decisions like this because through the Barnett formula they get more money per head per population that England and Wales get, to provide the same services. If Scotland received the same amount of monies per head per population, then I would agree with your argument. As they don't I think your argument is a red herring.

nolembit, as someone who studied in Scotland (University of Glasgow) I recall a few sleepless nights awaiting exam results as i required 3-A's and 2-B's minimum to simply attend the entrance exam!

Yes there are a few universities who accept you for the same course with far lower grades, Paisley (now UWOS) for example, however this can also be said of many English universities.

Students with good A Level passes are also only allowed to apply for 2nd year if they wish as Scottish students often go to university a year earlier. My degree took 4yrs but this included Hons and MSc.

longtime: Aye, Brits need to ken another language to study abroad, but so do the EU students coming over here, taking oor places.

I believe that most quality institutions won't eve take the cash unless the prospective student can prove linguistic competence.

Lesley33: the Barnett formula was agreed, is here, and not close to being replaced. We get what we're due and you get yours. There are many pages that will talk about sparsely populated regions and the increased cost per head to service their poplutions, even our oil, and now renewable wealth. [puts Saltire down as flag waving is showing too much of bingo wings]

I did an Erasmus year in the Netherlands (Groningen) and a lot of the courses, Batchelor and Master, were taught in English (Engineering, Chemistry,Business studies, Law etc)

You do need to prove linguistic competence but that's waived for native speakers of English IFSWIM

I'm not sure about undergrad. courses but a masters is about ?1600 as opposed to £4000-£9000 in the UK

Aaaaah, anti Scottish prejudice, the racism thats fun for the whole family! and its ok because, fuck em' their white

Repeat after me
Scottish people do not get tuition for free!
Scottish people do not get tuition for free!
Scottish people do not get tuition for free!

People residing in Scotland get it free, if you want to move to Scotland, you will be eligible.

If you are Scottish, born in Scotland, lived there for 17 years then your dads army unit gets posted to Catterick and you wish to go to a Scottish University , then you will have to pay as you do not live in Scotland

Scotland wants to charge EU students but cannot because the Westminster government ceded sovereignty in defiance of the people despite promising a referendum

I heard they are trying to get around the "not charging EU" students rule in a similar way that Irish Universities do. But this issue has been around for a very long time, EU students used to get grants to go to Scottish Unis in the late 80's but English couldn't.

lesley33

Scotland receives less money per head, than London, North England and far less than NI despite having 150 inhabited islands.

The average is skewed by those wealthy bankers than everyone loves to bash, unless you are swanning around the cotswolds or the more salubrious parts parts of the home counties you may very well be receiving more per head

There is also a large amount of Scots living in England paying that tax and subsidising Englands, 17BN HS2, channel tunnel millennium dome, cross rail, every British institution being built in London

coolas and pointy the fees DO NOT stop anyone from going. Their families do not have to find the money at any point. The graduate pays it back IF and when they are earning a sufficient salary. To argue that it is unfair because it USED to be free at point of use (not actually free - was always paid for by all tax payers including people who didn't go) is pointless. Lots of things USED to happen but if circumstances change then it would be irresponsible to continue as if they haven't. Anyway, that is a different discussion that has been done on here. As to the Scottish thing, if they did allow English students not to pay, all they'd do is not admit them in the first place or restrict numbers to the extent that it would make little difference and not be a realistic option anyway.

For those thinking of moving - you need to be domiciled in Scotland for three years to be eligible for their fees.

Titchy - Good to know.

I was looking in the local paper at the graduation lists from st Andrews..A lot of girls from the kate middleton belt,sorry, girls, he's been bagged,,,but one person is graduating with a 3rd class Honours in Animation,or cartoons to give it, its real title.3 years,we pay and then what?.Oh he came from surrey stock broker belt too, I suppose it got him out of the way for 3 yrs.

somethingwitty I am definitely not anti-Scottish. I just wish that there wasn't a policy that seemed so anti-English. I believe the Scots should get free University in Scotland. But I just think either all EU citizens including the English should pay something toward their Scottish Uni (definitely not as much as £6000 per year) or the English should pay nothing as well.

trixie Fees are going to stop a lot of people from applying to University. The idea that you will have lifelong debt will put many young people off. I would hate the idea of being in debt even if I knew that the debt would die after 30years. And I don't believe for a moment that things won't change. There may come a point when some government decides that they no longer want the burden of paying back all these student loans and says it is now the responsibility of the individual. Can you imagine trying to pay back £27000 plus the accumulated interest?

trixie, I KNOW that no one has to pay fees upfront. HOWEVER, have you really no idea how the mere thought of around £50000 of debt will put a huge number of people OFF?

It is not unfair BEACUASE it USED to be free. It is unfair because EDUCATION should be available to ALL and not be returned to a PRIVILEGE for the FEW.

I don't think the capitals help actually.

I suppose what I think is that if you really want a graduate career then you will do it regardless. I am a teacher and did incurr a fair amount of debt in my 4 years which I did eventually pay off. As for it being a right, at what level does that stop? Should I have been funded for the several other BAs I would like to have done, my MA (which I paid for) etc?

It can't be based on if you are English or Scottish as we are all British!! Unless I missed the introduction of a new passport system? If the Scottish government want to make uni free then that's up to them. If you dont like it blame David Cameron. I actually think its a good idea to put some people off uni. I didn't go, I couldn't afford it even when the fees where £3000. I know I didnt have to pay that up front but I couldn't afford the living costs. I went in to work and have gained relevant qualification though my employers. I now earn the most out of all my friends and only 2 of us didn't go to uni. Most of them do jobs that are of no relevance to their degrees or do not require a degree education (like the one that works in HMV). Some of them are now back at uni doing a degree that will actually get them a job.

Too many people have been to uni, subsidised by the tax payer, to study degrees that aren't worth the paper they are written on. I have a trust fund for my daughter but unless she wants to be something that really needs a degree, like a doctor, her trust fund will not be spent on university. I also think we should do more to encourage people in to vocational jobs. The emphasis has been on degrees for too long.

The situation always used to be that countries paid for their students fees. They could go to another EU university under a reciprocal agreement because all the EU countries had similar policies.

It was England who decided to stop paying fees for their students, and Scotland has had to consider how it can respond. It's not anti-English to change the rules after they unilaterally decided to move the goal-posts.

Scotland can't afford to pay the fees for everyone who goes to a Scottish university, and do not want to be seen as a cheap option.

sewmuch to do as a student at Strathclyde University for 7 years I spent a lot of time with students from England who did very poorly in their Alevels and got into University by the skin of their teeth through clearing. I am not saying that all Engish students who study at Scottish universities did poorly but a lot did. The ones who did well tended to go straight into 2nd year.

nole, and that is your reasoning for claiming that historically english students come to scotland with shit grades? Your statement isn't true.

And Lil, I agree that aiming for 50% of the population to go to uni was a daft govt target. However, to put people off by charging big fees is equally daft. You want the most capable to go to uni and you don't get hold of the most capabale by charging lots of money. That's how you get hold of the wealthiest.

It's not anti-english. Phrases like that are making this thread a race issue when it's got sweet Fanny Adams to do with race.