to think that there are too many selfish couples like this ruining people's meals with a screaming baby.

[theinet]

Company director Clive Merrifield, 45, was enjoying an evening meal with partner Idalina Lucas when he politely suggested Billy West, 20, and his girlfriend put the wailing seven-month-old to bed.
West approached the couple's neighbouring table, pulled a bottle of white wine from their ice bucket and brought it down at 'full force' onto Mr Merrifield's skull in front of other customers.
The victim was left with a 'four inch ragged scar' on his scalp following the brutal assault at Parveen, an Indian Restaurant in Theberton Street, Islington, north London.
The former soldier fears the wound makes him look like a thug and is anxious about his image with employees and clients, Blackfriars Crown Court heard.
Karen Robinson, prosecuting, said the clash took place shortly after 10pm on October 9 last year after the baby had been crying for up to half an hour.
West was sitting at a table with his young family and another man, and Mr Merrifield and Ms Lucas were at the next.
'The baby was crying and the lady was seen to get up and down and make moves in an effort to comfort the baby,' said the barrister.
'It was described as consistent and persistent and went on for about 15 to 30 minutes.
'Other customers were looking in the direction of the baby during the course of this period.
'Mr Merrifield said he had had a couple of drinks but describes himself as sober.'
The prosecutor said Mr Merrifield became 'frustrated by the crying and put his head in his hands', and told Ms Lucas: 'I've had enough.'
The victim stood up, approached West's party and said: 'It's a quiet restaurant. We're trying to have a quiet dinner and your baby's not stopped crying.
'Maybe your baby is tired?'
Witnesses described his tone as 'polite and reasonable', but nontheless West's girlfriend held the child aloft and said sarcastically: 'It's a baby.'
Mr Merrifield suggested the tot 'ought to be in bed', prompting West and the second man to stand up and invite him to settle the matter 'outside'.
Staff asked them to leave the restaurant and West was ushered towards the door.
But they 'continued to remonstrate with staff' and CCTV shows West returning to Mr Merrifield, who had stayed sitting down.
'He took a glass wine bottle from its ice bucket and hit him to the back of the head, smashing it on impact,' said the prosecutor.
A witness described West taking the weapon 'high and behind his head and taking aim, bringing it down with full force'.
Mr Merrifield said he 'felt a blow' to the back of his head which left him 'shocked, stunned and disorientated'.
West simply walked to the door and left the premises.
The vicitm was taken to hospital where he was given an emergency x-ray and 16 stitches.

I don't (yet) know if it's going to cite the same case as OP, but BBC Breakfast is doing this topic at 07:20 this morning.

How disgusting. That poor bloke.

But on the subject of babies making noise and disturbing a meal...
Babies cry.

I truly don't understand the problem.

I have never found it a problem to eat a meal while a baby cries. I am eating. A baby is crying. It has yet to make me miss my mouth or rendered me incapable of chewing and swallowing. Cries have yet to be so loud that I can't hear the people around me chatting. The pitch has never yet shattered my wine glass... It's just a baby. Crying. It's just a new, tiny member of the human race communicating in the only way they can.

If the baby is distressed, that's a different matter. If they need attending to, if they need to sleep... you have to take them away, because it's not good for them to stay. Listening to a distressed baby is heartrending. Because you feel sorry for the baby. (hopefully)

But from the pov that you can't let a baby make a noise because it somehow ruins people's evening - I don't get it and I think there is something wrong with a culture that feels that its newest members are an inconvinence or need to be hidden away, or restricted to certain places and is so intolerant of them.

Themagnificent. Loud drunks don't render me physically incapable of eating however it would massively spoil my enjoyment of the evening. The noise of a crying baby is so invasive as it is supposed to be to get the attention of others for it's survival. Just because a baby crying doesn't annoy you, doesn't mean it doesn't ruin the evening for others. Don't be so selfish.

I dont see how something not bothering her makes her selfish. But yes I agree hide all babies away!

You are all wrong of course. All those who say restaurants are not places for babies and think that this case proves that.

Utterly utterly wrong in so many ways.

Most other European restaurants welcome families and do all they can to make them feel at home because over there families get respect and eating socially as a family is everyone's favourite pastime. If that had been in France there would be women offering to soothe the baby whilst the couple ate their meal.

That he is a thug along with his wife, who both threatened the other diner, has nothing to do with the argument of whether babies should be allowed in restaurants.

When you have a baby you should not become a social pariah. Everyone needs a break and perhaps the next time you come across a baby crying in a restaurant you could offer to help instead of tutting, criticising and judging.

Not everyone is a thug like this couple. Typical Daily Mail slant to make it all about crying babies in restaurants instead of thug behaving like a thug, father or not.

I think 10pm is a reasonable time to not expect there to be children or babies in a restaurant.

If this thread about ''to think that there are too many selfish couples like this ruining people's meals with a screaming baby'' or the actual daily mail story?

I went to the cinema to see Bridesmaids last night, to an 8.20pm showing and a 'family' of three brought a baby in. I thought this was bizarre to say the least. It didn't disturb anyone, but why take a baby to a film like that??

The OP, with the thread title, is inferring that it was all the fault of the screaming baby and that if babies were banned from restaurants then incidents like this would never happen because presumably all the thugs would then have a personality change.

When I've been on holiday with mine as babies I took them to restaurants in the evening, maybe even as late as 10pm, why not? No-one ever tutted when they cried, instead I got a few looks of sympathy and smiles. I didn't see why dh and I couldn't enjoy our time together just because we had a baby and no babysitter. I refuse to be cooped up indoors because other stuffy DM readers think that my baby should be neither seen nor heard anywhere in public after 7pm.

childfreeatm - because of no babysitters?

Rhubarb0-Did you take your baby outside when it cried or were you quite happy for the noise to interupt other people's evening?

If more people were a little more 'forgiving' of others, and if more parents of screaming babies threw in the towel when comforting didn't work and just took baby away, then the world would be a more peaceful place.

I would have given it 10 minutes and then husband and I would have become a tag team of taking the baby outside (or out of the room) so as not to disturb others.

Unfortunately its quite common to see parents wanting to finish their meal whilst baby is unhappy and that gives every parent a bad name and makes restaurant owners reticent to allow children. That's a shame.

My friends wedding had a bit of shine taken off it because a family just wouldn't take their screaming child outside because they wanted to watch the ceremony, thankfully the vicar asked them to bugger off in the end.

I love kids being included, and you cannot blame a baby for crying, but parents can make a big difference in how annoying their little family is. We eat out a lot, at night, with children, and we accept that if our children kick off and we can't calm them, then out of respect to everyone, it should be us who moves or doesn't get to finish our dinner.

On the subject of European countries, where babies and children stay in restaurants until much later than they do here. Many families in these countries have siestas in the afternoon. I suspect the children either sleep later in the morning or sleep more in the afternoon so they can happily stay up much later than children in the UK. If they've had enough sleep and are not overtired there's much less chance of crying for babies and more chance of better behaviour in general with todders/children.

To those saying that a resteraunt is not the place for babies- this was clearly a 'child friendly' resteraunt! else they would have been aked to leave! Children and babies are not dirty little secrets to be hidden, excluded from society until they reach such an age that they are more pleasing to the ear.
However, this case, as many have said, is nothing to do with the baby. its to do with a Thug brutally attacking another diner. which is obviously despicable.

Oh, theinet I remember you! Still on study-leave and continuing your campaign to protect society from babies?

A thug was a thug. Has nothing to do with babies' parents having the audacity to take them outside, and everything to do with his over-aggressive nature.

I took babies to restaurants all over the place. No problems and I used to get compliments on them from other diners. How was this achieved, you ask? Simple. I only took babies to restaurants when it was a good time for them to go, too, because they weren't going to cry/would only cry for milk. If they got hungry, I fed them immediately.

why anyone would think you can extrapolate anything sensible to do with the admissibility of kids in restaurants from this freakish horrible event is beyond me

I can only imagine the OP is on a wind up, but giving her / him the benefit of the doubt I'd say that for my part I do think parents should make every effort to keep their children quiet in a restaurant and I do question the advisability of taking your baby out for a meal at 10 at night.

On a vaguely related note I read Malaysia Air is banning babies from first class and that Virgin and BA have considered baby free flights on some routes too.

Bit depressing to see some people trying to out do the victorians and have children not even seen, never mind heard.

When we have small babies some things need to go on the back burner for a bit.

I would not take a baby out to eat at 10pm...mainly because it is not fair on the child.

Yes,we parents all deserve a break ,god knows I need one however I can't imagine it is much fun for the parents to be juggling a baby over their chicken korma.

Why do it to yourselves?

This particular case contains a special kind of fool,the kind that would have kicked off over a paper in the local WHS.

Have I asked other diners to stop talking into their mobile phones in restaurants so loudly I can hear their whole convo? No.
Have I told birthday parties to stop laughing and singing happy birthday in restaurants? No.
Have I asked crowded tables to stop talking so loudly in restaurants? No.

So why should anyone even think of asking me to keep my baby quiet?

If my baby cried then I would consider taking it out to comfort it, or give it a feed. But why would anyone expect parents to leave paid for food in a restaurant because their baby was crying? If the baby isn't crying for the start of the meal then who can predict they will suddenly burst into tears halfway through? Are you people seriously suggesting that couple should leave their meals and go just so you can carry on enjoying yours/

Others don't have a problem with it so may I suggest that the problem is with the selfish minority?

I think if a baby is crying for 15 to 30 mins and cannot be consoled then it is time to end the meal and leave as the baby isn't happy. To think everyone else should just put up with it is unreasonable regardless of the time. Put the child first surely.

I actually don't mind other peoples babies crying ,I would not want to deal with mine in one however...

The kid would cry even back at home, babies that age cry regardless unfortunately. Sometimes you can get away with it and have a nice meal with no interruption and sometimes you can't. But what I cannot stand are the people who rather than offer to help or even a sympathetic child, would instead demand that you leave straight away and would even like to see restaurants ban families presumably so they can have their meals in total silence.

In a chatty, relaxed restaurant a crying child would hardly be noticed and those are the ones we normally would have headed for.

smile not child, obv!

"Are you people seriously suggesting that couple should leave their meals and go just so you can carry on enjoying yours/"

Yes, sounds like a very good plan IMO. Basic consideration for others, and its for the greater good and all that.

What is it with the OP and AIBU anyway? It's all she seems to post on.

If this thread has been started purely to get posters riled and turn against each other for the OPs entertainment then I'm out.

See ya laters.

The baby may not have cried back at home, it may be over stimulated with the noise, music, lighting etc. In one radio report it was said the mother held the baby up and shook it saying 'it's a baby' .