aibu to think that all those striking on thursday are being selfish and greedy?

[hellospoon]

And they should be thankful that they even have a job?

In a day where thousands of people are unemployed and living in poor conditions surely these teachers should be thankful they even have a job!

Many parents are having to take leave, some unpaid I presume the effect that it will have on family's is ridiculous.

itsnearlysummer - But there are a lot of accountants and lawyers earning £30-40k. You only have to look at the job adverts to see that. There are higher paid jobs out there of course but there seems to be some misguided belief that they are all raking it in. They aren't. Just because you know somebody who got a job paying £10k more doesn't make it the norm. Surveys of 1 are not very convincing. Besides how much do teachers go up if they take on more responsibility? Presumably they get something too - the payscales would suggest they do.

By the way, to whoever says there won't be redundancies there will. Probably not amongst the teachers because you do need a teacher per class at primary anyway but you will definitely find yourself without the support of the TAs that you are used to because they will be made redundant. That is already happening. You might find them not so supportive of your strikes if they stand to lose their jobs so you can have a higher pension.

what neicie said.

i think many people suppot public workes because they are also working for not vey much. most of the people in this country live below the british average wage. if this country and this gov is supposed to be for the people they should support us but instead we have:
low wages
no jobs
pensions slashed
trying to limit trade unions
privatise the nhs

not seeing much for me in there.

yes we are in trouble fincancially but last time i checked nothing i have ever said has been taken on board by the gov, they pretend to listen then ignore.

the govs in power, they make laws that banks find loop holes for. we work for piss all and now until we drop for shit wages, no hope of home ownership, privatisation of nhs, no legal aid, there are few jobs around, our children will be taking bank loans to pay the ever increasing uni loans for jobs that dont exist even though customer services jobs now require degrees, try and argue? oh no there are no trade unions to go to and youl get arrested. when you do dont expect a lawyer present either.

when the fuck are we going to wake up and hold these nasty bastards to ransom, before anyone goes well it was brown/blair not the tories anyone with half an arse of memory will remember that blair (tory in disguise) spent all the money on the war, left no money left for brown to do anything.

If we still had nationlised services etc we would not be so at risk. but we have nothing. "Great britain" is built on a lie, banking we sold everyhting of value and no were fucked. and we all know who that was.

One more thing? why they fuck did we (certainly not me) vote for the same TOSSERS who didnt want the minimum wage???

Niecie, you're right, there are accountants/lawyers earning that but people who are good at their job and driven can earn more. I also know that my survey of one is not all convincing but she was able to do that. That option isn't available to teachers, they progress up the payscales and can take on more responsibility/management positions but then the job changes and teachers inevitably spend less time actually teaching - which is what a lot of them want to do.

Teachers do get 'bonuses' for taking on subject area responsibilities etc but I met a teacher who was the science subject leader for an extra £2k a year. He gave it up because the extra money he got each month (after tax) wasn't worth the extra stress and responsibility and level of work he had to do to get that.

There have been teacher redundancies at my mum's school. I don't know about TAs, but some 'technical support' type roles have also gone. I don't know how they're going to manage it. It's a secondary school. I think it's different in primaries. But yes, people are being made redundant.

YABU - everyone has the right to strike. Their terms of employment have been changed they have a right to strike against it as does anyone in any profession. We are a democracy so we have these rights.

I'm also aware that all my 'evidence' is anecdotal and I probably don't have all the facts.

JIRkids - I have never been in a union. I have never worked anywhere were there was one so I disagree that we all have the right to strike - not in any realistic way.

Besides I don't dispute the teachers have the right to strike since they do have a union. What I disagree with is the fact that they are making a futile gesture to the detriment of the children. Striking won't achieve anything.

YABU

Teachers wages are low for professionals.

Teachers are not babysitters (as you seem to think they are).

Teachers have also had a pay freeze over the past few years.

They have the right to defend the previous pensions deal.

applaud for knittedbreast

very but everything you have said is true

even sadder is that there doesn't seem to be a way to fix this certainly not that i can see

YABU. As others have said, teachers are there to educate, not simply to provide free childcare for your porecious offspring.

And this strike will only be the beginning. When NASUWT/UNISON ballot in the Autumn this "inconvenience" to you will be a drop in the ocean.

precious - sorry.

And what's the point of a strike that doesn't disrupt?

BTW, I'm hearing of far too many teachers whose HTs are putting them under pressure not to strike and SMT who are covering the classes of striking teachers. Disgraceful.

YABU. Also anyone who is foolish enough to say the strike is to the detriment of children, what sort of future would we leaving for them if we all sat back and took everything thats thrown at us.

mmmmm I educate my children, the teachers are there to facilitate the schooling side of things....

Pensions are never fully part of the terms and conditions of any job. There is always the line in there that "things may change depending on legislation in place at any time".

I defend the teachers right to strike - as I would defend anyone's right to strike. Just because they choose to strike does not mean I have to support this particular one.

Not all teachers do either - 60% couldn't be bothered to tick a box to say either yes OR no - apathy rules.

I applaud the strikers, and anyone else that stands up for their rights! I am a public sector worker (we aren't called to go on strike), but unions are practically the last stand for the Ordinary Joe Public to stand up against the government.

Yes I know the government has to cut the deficit, but it's like cutting your food budget,when you are still paying for an expensive gym membership.

Raiding public sector pensions isn't the way to do it. I know many govt workers who are feeling it just isn't worth it/can't afford to be in the pension scheme anymore. It cost me £140 a MONTH to pay for my old age,so I had to take the choice, eat now or pay for my old age.I took eating now. I do hope to make other provisions later,but a pension is a luxury I can no longer afford,which means the govt will have to take up the slack when I retire in 25 years or so. And pay for my care.

Maybe the govt should think about cutting other stuff, like the £300 million of Foreign Aid, it gives to India-a rich economy that has more billionaires than we do, or the £90 million it is giving to Yemen, a country that is now apparently Al Queda's training ground,or maybe the £350 million it is giving over 4 years to Pakistan,where we found Bin Laden. Or maybe the war in Afghanistan which is a dead duck and only ending up in our boys coming home in bodybags for nothing.Yes I know that was started under Labour,but time to call a halt to that pointless exercise.

Or maybe time to scrap nuclear projects, when we pretty much know that there won't be a nuclear war, and until we actually poked our noses in to stuff that is unnecessary (apart from the Falklands natch), there hasn't been a necessary war since WW2.

I don't have an issue with cutting the deficit,just HOW it's done, I have an issue with.

Knitted - none of our children will need bank loans to pay off their uni loans. That kind of nonsense is what is going to scare off our children from going to Uni not the fees.

They will pay 9% of their wages above £21k to pay back their loans. If they don't get to earn more than that or enough over the course of their career then they will never pay back their loans. I don't support tuition fees but it is simply not as bad as you are making out.

I can't help thinking about the secondary school induction I went to last week for DS1. They repeatedly said that they wanted the children to attend school as much as possible. Minor ailments should be ignored, and no holidays would be authorised during term time. Apparently, losing 17 days of secondary schooling equates to the loss of one GSCE grade.

And yet there seems to be the suggestion that teachers will suddenly forget all that and this dispute will go on for the foreseeable future. So yes, the strike will be detrimental our children and if the teachers just sit back and take it then it will be for the benefit of the children because they won't be losing school days and they won't be damaging their educational outcomes as a result.

YANBU

Sarah is right about tuition fees.

Niecey

They repeatedly said that they wanted the children to attend school as much as possible. Minor ailments should be ignored, and no holidays would be authorised during term time. Apparently, losing 17 days of secondary schooling equates to the loss of one GSCE grade.

This is solely to do with the fact that Ofsted can put your school into special measures if the school's attendance falls below a certain point. Most teachers I know (me included) agree that sending children into school ill does nobody any good.

What makes teachers think they should get extra credit because they do it?

What 'extra' credit do you mean?

I don't know what a difference a strike day makes. They seem to have quite a few odd days off. Only last week there was a - "no school tomorrow mum." - study day.

YAB a bit U as teachers have the right to strike - they were expecting one thing and appear to be getting another. BUT everyone, esp those in the public sector, will have to take a hit on pensions as there just is not enough money in the pot. And people are living longer thus collecting pensions for longer. the writing has been on the wall for years re pensions- companies closing schemes etc. Teachers shoudl be no different.

..24 little hours.

OP, i got married and my husband promised to love and cherish me. If he suddenly changed and started abusing me what would your response be? "You are lucky to have a husband, stop moaning?" or "loads of people are in abusive marriages, those of you in good ones don't know how lucky you are?" Or would you support my campaign to stop domestic abuse? Or, if it inconvenienced you for a day would you just say I had to "put up with it?"

I was a teacher, DH works in the private sector. He works less hard, has fewer qualifications and earns much more. He will retire earlier than me (who has moved from teaching to the NHS). The private sector is not the hellish environment many try to portray it as.

As for the young not understanding, plenty of my ex-students are VERY active in politics. I think this generation is shaking off apathy now they have seen the reality of a different ethos of government.

YANBU

On my planet teachers salaries and pensions are pretty good.

But then as a private sector worker on much less than a teacher's salary with NO pension and NO pay rise in ooooh, about 10 years I would say that!

They seem to have quite a few odd days off

5 days INSET plus, this year, one for the Royal Wedding.

Only last week there was a - "no school tomorrow mum." hmm - study day

Is your child taking GCSEs? If so, study leave will have kicked in. If not, perhaps it was a school target setting day.

And to the poster wondering why days missed equate to poorer performances at GCSE but the same doesn't apply to strike days, on the latter no member of the class is being taught. In the case of the former (ie unauthorised absence/holidays etc) the pupil is missing work the rest of the class has done and will have to catch up. And I wouldn't mind betting the striking teachers will be working really hard to make up what's lost on the strike day. I think most unsupportive parents are miffed at losing their babysitting facilities for the day.