aibu to think that all those striking on thursday are being selfish and greedy?

[hellospoon]

And they should be thankful that they even have a job?

In a day where thousands of people are unemployed and living in poor conditions surely these teachers should be thankful they even have a job!

Many parents are having to take leave, some unpaid I presume the effect that it will have on family's is ridiculous.

YABU and an offensive idiot. Teachers are not your slaves and childminders. Also, they are qualified professionals not day labour who should be 'glad to have a job'. Pah.

If you haven't got the same pensions as teachers then its no ones fault but your own.

Don't hate the teachers for having the guts to do what you should. If you want what they have then fight for it, don't sit on your arse waiting for the crumbs from your bloody masters.

When did our country become such wimps.

TEACHERS not necessarily greedy...Cameron Tory government are rampant on legislating and rampant on U-turns. They need stopping in their stupid Tory stride.

Cameron needs his arse kicking from Lands End to Glasgow; and back again
till his buttocks are as red as a pillar box. GO FOR IT

YAB VERY U

'unions feel that the public sector should not have to bare the brunt of the current crisis that this country is in' - and so do I. Teachers, nurses, lecturers, public sector workers DID NOT cause the economic crisis.

Sorting out childcare will be a massive PITA and I am still supportive of the strike.

Those that have been made redundant will now have to get on their bikes and get a job so they aren't benefits scroungers. Despite years of 60 hour weeks I will now need to look for a job with much worse conditions. I most definitely NOT be grateful to have a job with rubbish terms, conditions and pay.

What people fail to see is that money isn't working for you at the moment - increasing contributions isn't going to make much difference - because these so called 'schemes' are making sod bloody all. What can the government do about that?

Firstly school is not chilcare its education.
Secondly why compare private and public sector its not relevant,i have given half my life to the public sector and chose to stay because of the pension despite being enticed by more money in private.
Why should we be gratefull we have a job?I trained under my own time and money and have been a hard working and loyal employee who has made a real difference to my clients lives.

YABU

YANBU - it's a complete non issue for me as DS is in nursery but I still have no support whatsoever for striking teachers over this issue.

Unfortunately employment law in this country says that with reasonable notice and consultation your employment terms and conditions can generally be changed or the employee can be sacked if they don't agree to such changes.

That's nothing worse for public sector workers than anyone else - how do you think most of the private sector lost their final salary schemes? If you don't like that you campaign to change the law. You don't throw your toys out of the pram and go on strike.

Funny that people are still queuing up to become teachers though - it's not like there is a national shortage of applicants so it can't be that bad beng a teacher. This is one of those issues where conversations on MN bear no resemblence to conversations I have in RL.

spooks I would say that this is definitely going to turn into a long term industrial action.
The government are not going to roll over on Friday following one day of strikes.
The Hutton report makes it very clear that the pensions for public sector workers are not going to be sustainable in the long run. They need reform.

When the teachers don't get the answer they want on Friday what will the unions do?
More action I would have thought.

That's the people who go into teaching though Sarah. What about the high turnover of teachers? A lot of people leave due to finding what the job, conditions etc. are actually like.

"it's not like there is a national shortage of applicants so it can't be that bad beng a teacher"

sarah that is very true.
There is very little support for this action in rl. Even the Labour party are asking the teachers to reconsider because they can see that this is only going to add weight to Cameron's calls to prune the public sector.

40% drop out of the PGCE course. Of those left 50% leave within the first 5 years post qualifying,

Yes there are lots lining up to be teachers but keeping them is another matter.

i'm very torn, n the one hand i understand that they were given 1 contract and the goalposts have now been moved to their detriment which is unfair.

on the other hand there is a pensions crisis which is only likely to get worse for future generations, i am in my 20s and the only choice i have ever had of a pension is a very high price contributory pension which i cannot afford to pay into as my mortgage and living costs are too high, DH and i have no pension at all and by the time we retire the government is likely to have moved retirement age to 80s or 90s basically i think i'll be working till i'm in a box so i do find it hard to sympathise.

the people i really feel for are my/our kids generation, who not only will have a worse education as a result of no-one wanting to teach but high Uni fees meaning only rich can do to uni, v. high house prices meaning they will probably be waiting for us to pop our clogs before they can live alone, and no pensions for them either because pensions value and availability has been getting substantially worse with every new working generation.

I am a PGCE drop out! It was hell, and I have done some hard jobs in my time (small software start ups etc.). Without the hope of a good pension I might not even have started.

YABU to think they are being greedy and selfish. I think the teachers do a great job and I am grateful for all they do. I know how hard they work and the commitment they make to the children they teach.

However, I would say YANBU if you say that they are being unrealistic and naive.

What do they hope to achieve by striking? Do they really think they will gain anything because I think they are living in Cloud Cockoo land if they do. Protest all you like, become increasing alienated from the people whose support you seek and damage your own image all you like but it won't make a difference.

Teachers want to be included in the ranks of the professional but they don't want to behave like other professionals. All professionals work more than contracted hours, all of them require higher levels of educations andd have high levels of responsibility. What makes teachers think they should get extra credit because they do it? The salaries aren't out of line with what most accountants and lawyers get either, not when you factor in the higher holidays and benefits they do have. Other professionals don't strike either.

And if you aren't fit to be a teacher after the age of 50 or whatever, get another job. People don't have careers for life any more so if you can't cope you owe it to yourself to move on. That is what the rest of the world do.

I think they need to take the changes on the chin and just get on with it. If it wasn't what they signed up for and their dissatisfaction is that great, find another career where you feel your work is more suitably rewarded.

Yabu. Aside from the pay issue, there is the issue of much older teachers being kept in the job. Dh and I were discussing this yesterday (both teachers-not our union striking) and considering the idea of his 68 year old parents having done a further 10 years. They were lucky to retire early, the profession was lucky to have inspirational teachers like them leaving at the peak of enthusiasm and experience. But now, they are not and wouldn't be in a good place to give of their best. In the last few years, after virtually no time off in their careers, they would have cost a fortune in sick leave, and a school would have been without a head. Dfil would have limped back to work several times and they would also have cost thousands as his elderly mother was cared for full time residentially without their daily support. Most teachers are not suggesting their position is unique, but they have to fight their own corner. They can hardly go on strike on behalf of another profession's pay and conditions.

YABU

if you start a job and are promised x y & z, you should get x y & z

if the powers that be want to change the rules, do so for newcomers to the job not those who have made their arrangements around what they have been promised

YABU
WE ALL deserve a good pension. shame on those employers who have closed their final salary schemes while still paying nice chunky dividends to their fat cat share holders.

I'm not sure you can compare teacher salaries with those of accountants and lawyers!!!

My dad wanted me to become a lawyer because "you never see a poor lawyer". I don't think anyone has ever said that about teachers!

My friend is an accountant and she has just started a new job for £10k more than she was previously earning. That cannot be done in teaching and she was earning more that the top of the teachers MPS in her old job.

"when the gov is forced to bring in the army maybe they will realise people wont stand for thei nasty tory bullshit ideology"

Oh yes, let's bring in the military to cover the strikes, it's not like they're doing much these days are they

LithaR

Don't hate the teachers for having the guts to do what you should. If you want what they have then fight for it, don't sit on your arse waiting for the crumbs from your bloody masters.

I couldn't agree more.

maybe an excuse to keep more of them here cavemum aye?

charlotte I think you'll find that a huge proportion of shares are owned by pension funds. So those benefiting from comanies doing well are ... well you get the picture.

Let's stop pretending that there are 'them' the fat cats and 'us' the salt of the earth public sector workers.