aibu to think that all those striking on thursday are being selfish and greedy?

[hellospoon]

And they should be thankful that they even have a job?

In a day where thousands of people are unemployed and living in poor conditions surely these teachers should be thankful they even have a job!

Many parents are having to take leave, some unpaid I presume the effect that it will have on family's is ridiculous.

Hmm methinks that might be a drop in the ocean if every single person in the country is going to have a pension on a par with that which teachers are still going to get.

I am striking on Thursday, (secondary teacher), for the following reasons

• you can't change a contract with someone and expect them not to mind

• the system was redone in 2006 and latest evidence suggests it pays for itself therefore this is just a way to raise extra money for the treasury, i.e. a tax on being a teacher

• an attack on public sector pensions is not an attempt to make it fair for the private sector it is just a revenue raising exercise using people who had absolutely nothing to do with the problems the country faces

• the country was in a much worse financial state at the end of WWII and then went on to set up the best welfare system in the world. cuts are not the solution (see the New Deal in america in the 30's for another example)

• the one I care most about (and the one I'm a bit embarrassed about). I love my job, I love the kids. I want to do it better all the time. I am angry that so many kids still don't get a good deal in education. I teach with some wonderful, talented and intelligent people who do wonderful things with kids all the time and make them happier and safer, give them more choices because they come to school. BUT I do still teach with some people who frankly I am embarrassed by, who kids verbally abuse and in my heart of hearts I think 'fair enough'. This is not OK. The only way we make education and schools better is to employ better people. I went to uni with these people but a tiny, tiny fraction of them teach and to be fair the rest now earn 2-3 times as much as I do (and I do pretty well - leadership in a big school)- and will probably go onto earn more like 5-6 times as much in final salary. As much as I am an idealist you can't really expect everyone to sacrifice serious salary gains for the public good. BUT you want good schools you need to get good people teaching in them. To get good people, pay them good money. you do that you can make the penalties for failing teachers as harsh as you like because there will be a queue of people wanting their jobs. messing with the pensions is just another way of damaging that.

Spend money on job creation to kick-start the economy and cut the welfare bill

Milamar, what do you think the teachers are going to get?

"Shall we increase tax for higher earners?"

Oh, here we go again...

When I was teaching I earned enough to have to pay higher rate tax. I am not sure, Shelly, that I understand your point. Do you not think wealth should be more evenly distributed?

Milamae - you do know that the TPS was redone in 2006 to make it sustainable (so that all that goes out is what is paid in)? the government is supposed to have done another study but hasn't but the latest study in dec 2010 said that that was the case and that teacher's pensions paid for themselves.
helped of course by the fact that the average age of death for a HT in 67. hardly drawing pensions for 20 years is it?

by the by - yes increase tax for higher earners, why on earth does everyone in the uK worry about the time when they earn 500K when less than 1% ever will ?- we are developing the US view point.

"Do you not think wealth should be more evenly distributed?"

Communism? Not really, no.

Communism is communal ownership of the means of production. It is not synonymous with wealth redistribution.

Should a footballer be paid more than a nurse?

I took my kids out of the school system because I don't like being a part of it BUT I am in total support of the teachers striking....one has to stand up to bullies :)

clemetteattlee - do you realise that the average private sector employee pays approximately 50% more into pubic sector pensions, via taxes, than they do into their own pensions?

communism and wealth distribution are not the same thing

i don't believe for 1 minute that higher tax rates prevent higher earnings - they certainly don't in my case, I chose to take the higher paid job with associated extra costs (which have now risen of course thanks to the cut to CB) but I would still do so because it is a more interesting job and that is why I go to work because I like and am interested in my job (not all the time fair enough but enough to realise it is worth doing). I would seriously question any HRT payer who said differently

TCOB

Errr...like Russia, India and China?

India is spending £200m on the worlds biggest statue
we give hem £3oom in FA, they in turn have 1 £285m FA budget

They give away our money and take the credit whilst slapping huge tariffs on British goods keeping us out their markets

China has trillions in savings trillions, they could have used this to alleviate poverty but they chose not to.

2 days after cameron announced an addition £650m to Pakistan,safehaven of international terrorists, Pakistan announced an addition £600m in military spending

Why is FA increasing from 8billion to 12? we are borrowing money to give it away, would you advise someone whos earnings were less than their outgoings to increase their charitable giving but racking up credit card bills?

9billion would pay a lot of teachers pensions; or build he worlds largest statue

"Should a footballer be paid more than a nurse?"

Of course they should, if the people paying their salary want to pay them more and are able to do so.

It's a free market economy fgs!

What utter nonsense. Did you not read the above that shows the teachers' pensions are self supporting?
I pay more tax, and more pension contributions than my private sector worker husband. He contributes 5.3% of his income to his pension. Please explain the mathematics of your claim.

shellyboobs - but with an associated pay compensation.
someone earlier on this thread said 'pay is determined by the market' 'you are paid what someone will pay you'
that's the point.
teacher's withdraw their labour for a day (I would bet money tough that only a tiny handful will do no work on that day just not at school!) and you start to see what they are worth.
the cost and inconvenience is huge. i do know this and I am sorry because the cost shouldn't be imposed on parents but there is no way to impose the cost on government so we have to do this and hope that parents pass the cost on by voicing their displeasure.
of course the cost of one day's childcare is not even close to the cost of an uneducated youth so it should be considered a shot across the bows so to speak.

"Did you not read the above that shows the teachers' pensions are self supporting?"

Because someone wrote it doesn't mean it's true. I worry for the people you taught.

Shellyboobs - look it up then. do you need me to send you the links?

That there free market economy is doing us all proud isn't it?

I have never met a person in real life that thinks that footballers DESERVE more because they operate in an arena based largely on the whims of Russian oligarchs. Holding such views is abhorrent in my opinion, but luckily it is not a widely held view.

Great, allow them to leave.

Employ unemployed teachers,huge surplus we have spent a lot of money training

http://community.tes.co.uk/forums/66.aspx lots of unemployed,unhappy teachers

I thought that foreign aid of that scale was most often distributed in the context of a trade agreement. I wonder where Pakistan will be buying those extra weapons? (armaments are one of our major exports these days- we manufacture nothing else but things to kill people with...)

Ah, when it starts to get personal I retire to bed.
Don't worry about them though, many of them are fighting the good fight and will be marching on Thursday. Many of them won't, but at least I taught them to question what they read in the DM and that it is OK to challenge the status quo. And even the one whois am professional footballer will acknowledge his wages are inequitable.

somethingwitty - I agree I don't want 'bad' teachers, probably less than you do BUT i know how hard it is to find a teacher and how many poor ones there are so I think it is a strange logic to suggest that making more people want to leave (because lets face it they will be the ones who could earn more elsewhere - i.e smarter, more educated etc) and less people want to join is a good thing.

clemet - did I make it personal (I don't normally post so am trying to figure out if I upset people unwittingly - I am honestly not beingly purposely dense)?

Not you, Shelly with her pitying the people I taught. I can't C&P on this iPad so keep forgetting that people might not know which post I am referring to!