aibu to think that all those striking on thursday are being selfish and greedy?

[hellospoon]

And they should be thankful that they even have a job?

In a day where thousands of people are unemployed and living in poor conditions surely these teachers should be thankful they even have a job!

Many parents are having to take leave, some unpaid I presume the effect that it will have on family's is ridiculous.

I think something has just made some revealing comments about overseas aid that pretty much sum up a particular and unpleasant mindset. We are so much better off then the countries we give aid to, where children die like flies for lack of basic medicine and innoculations. It is a poor and hideous society which ignores global responsibility and one even something's mate Dave doesn't want to live in.

Plus his mate runs the company who won the right to distribute the vaccines even though others would do it more cheaply.

YABU. I don't think its about how great/crap teachers are, or how well paid they are, or whether they have it better than most. The simple fact is that when they decided to commit their lives to teaching, there was a set of expectations in place. They chose to be a teacher because of the combination of terms in place, salary v pension, rights v responsibilities. Someone has decided to change the rules halfway through the game - I'm not surprised they are taking their ball home with them.
Just because they work with children doesn't reduce their right to industrial action when they get disgruntled. I'm for the strike. If someone changed my terms of employment, I'd be well pissed off too.

YABU, the school I work in will be closed. The teachers are all of a similar age and pointed out if they work until 68 it will be unfair upon the children as they will all be old timers.

Teachers have families to think about too.

Bob - ahh, vocationally-minded. It's nowt to do with class, of course, is it? It just happens that the wealthy are more academic ergo go to university, and we need to stop these pesky poor 'uns taking up the places. And damn those teachers for trying to get them into the Unis that their parents pay a disproportionate amount of tax towards.

"The teachers are all of a similar age and pointed out if they work until 68 it will be unfair upon the children as they will all be old timers. "

That argument is utter bollocks. It's of the 'oh yeh, we can use that as an argument, too', variety.

What about people doing hard physical labour in their late 60s? people such as cleaners? car mechanics? builders? shift workers in factories?

All those jobs are far less suitable to an older person than teaching.

Err Shelley the problem is there is going to be a shortfall between contributions paid in and what is paid out.

The tax payer picks up the tab when this happens. So basically in a few years time when those of us in the private sector get near to our miserable pension we'll need to pay more tax to meet the shortfall.

Our children who are already fucked will be even more fucked.Not only will our children(the children teachers teach) probably never be in a position to buy,they're going to be paying tuition fees and on top of that (unless they're teachers) have next to nothing to retire on and be paying stonking tax to keep a small percentage of the population in a very comfortable retirement the like of which nobody else will get to experience.

The whole system is going to get worse and worse as we're all living longer.The rest of us have had to except the situation and either raise our contributions on our eroded private pensions or face the fact that we're going to have buggar all to top up our state pension as we don't have the state picking up the tab for any shortfall.

Teachers are not only sticking their fingers in their ears singing la,la,la but also effectively saying "we don't care about the rest of you just ourselves".

Everybody in the private sector had to except the rules of the game changed long ago.

Seriously wondering if half the people posting on hear actually listen to the news.Has nobody heard the warnings issued to those with private pensions ie pay in more to your pension scheme or you'll be fucked.

MilaMae - sorry, that's the exact point I was trying to make but perhaps too subtly. It's not about people wanting back what they paid in; they want that plus a lot more.

mdowdall, it makes no odds to me which side of parliament is doing a bad job, it can be either. what counts is if we are happy to settle with what we have, do we really have all the facts and figures, or do we have what we are told to have.

are we happy that graduates don't have enough jobs? are we happy that youth unemployment is so high? are we happy that the poorest are set to get poorer? are we happy that some large companies can 'get away' with what they do because of legal and tax loopholes? are we completely satisfied that other routes to solve these problems cannot be taken? are we really, really sure? are we sure we cannot go down the robin hood tax path? are we sure we can't close more tax loop holes? are we sure we have exhausted our means...really, really?

it is up to us to change these things and, question these things and talk about these things. we live in a democracy and we are free to make our voices heard. if it so happens, that you have the strength of a union and the right to down tools, then do it. if you want to write to your MP, do it. they are all legal ways of making our voices heard, leagal ways to get answers to questions, legal ways to get talks working.

as an aside, i thought that cammeron said they were the 'listening party', however, he did not seem to be taking that tone today?

Lego I agree with some issues the Tories need to make sure they can't shave money off from other places but re pensions it's like shovelling snow in a snowstorm.As each year goes buy it's just going to get worse,it's inevitable.Science is going to keep on improving we'll just live longer and longer.Pensions as they were are not viable. The private sector have had to except it,now the public sector have to. I voted labour and hate most of what the Tories do but on this subject I think they're right-still won't vote for them though.

Apologies shelly

The thing that peeves me is that I will not be getting what I signed up for. If I had sent for an item by mail order and the company then said I had to pay more or not get it, everyone would understand me being annoyed. It's the same with the pension scheme. If people sign up to the new package fine but those who are currently on it having understood they would receive a certain deal are now owed that deal or their money back. I'm on maternity so the strike won't affect me but if I had been at work I probably would not have joined in the strike, most of our lot don't. But it doesn't mean we approve of what's going on. Totally agree that it is a slippery slope and will happen to others once the teachers have been got and that the campaign by the DM etc should be for private sector pensions and conditions to improve, not to bring everyone else down. That's as logical as banning food here to solve third world poverty on the grounds that if everyone is starving it's fair!

The new deal is from now on. The money paid so far will be used as originally agreed. Unless I have the wrong end of the stick.

I think some people on this thread need to have somebody look at what their pension will give them without increasing their contributions and then look at the extra they're going to have to pay-now asap.

Bare in mind if things don't change you'll be paying more tax for the state pensions. Also it's not a job you can do at the last minute. If you're in your 40s like me with young kids it's quite scary as now is the time we should be doing it.

When you've done that compare it to what teachers will be getting on the new deal.

I'm with you on that too, MilyMae. I'm not a tory, never have been, never will be. I would never vote Conservative.

It doesn't stop me from agreeing with some of their policies though, just as I also agree with some Labour policies.

I just find it so annoying that people go on and on about 'the nasty tories' as if everything would be alright without them and no one except rich bankers would feel the pain if someone else was in power.

I had been at work I probably would not have joined in the strike, most of our lot don't. But it doesn't mean we approve of what's going on

By going to work as normal your colleagues are demonstrating approval of what's going on.

YABU...why dont you home educate if you think the people you entust to look after your DCs for 6 hours a day are so shite?

Drcocnut but why is it ok for the private sector not to have the deal they signed up for?

All of us shopping for food at M&S and playing golf in our retirement just isn't possible.This argument that we should all have improved pensions simply isn't possible.

None of us will enjoy the pensions our parents have(I think dp's parents have a higher income per month than we do) but we shouldn't feel sorry for ourselves as our kids will be far worse off unless they act prudently and save-a lot!!!!

It is not OK. I would have supported them too. Maybe if people hadn't bought into the idea that unions were BAD then private sector workers would have more protection too.

So where would the money come from?

And, I repeat, it IS possible - the government can choose to spend it's money in this area, it simply doesn't want to.

Ok so where exactly would it come from now,next year and in the future?

Shall we have £20 billion from scrapping the Trident programme for starters?

Shall we increase tax for higher earners?

Shall we close legal tax avoidance schemes?