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Original poster

to think America is a frightening place to be a woman right now?

457 replies

BornSicky · 24/06/2011 23:05

Pregnant women facing murder charges

This is bullying at a nightmarish level.

I find it foul and despicable that women are being villified in such a way. How did the Christian right-wing become so powerful?

Truly, truly scary.

How can these bad laws (including the new "inspections" (read closures) of abortion clinics in Kansas) come to be passed? How can they be stopped?

OP posts:
CrapolaDeVille · 27/06/2011 06:48

cheerful.....

The trouble with the arguments for pro life is that it concentrates on the fetus, as soon as you do this these unborn humans should deserve the same rights, no? So once you decide that abortion is murder you fall prey to the rape victim's 'baby' and disabled 'baby' having equal rights.... or are you saying that only some 'babies' should be aborted? Basically your view on abortion hinges on how the mother was impregnated.....was it her fault?

So in essence an abortion for you in a moral judgement of the mother, should she be forced to terminate or does she have a good enough reason to 'kill her baby'?

Being prolife can never be a feminist view point, because women have been subjected to a second rate life due to their carrying of babies, throughout history.

CheerfulYank · 27/06/2011 06:55

I don't think that that's necessarily true, but I understand why you think so.

CrapolaDeVille · 27/06/2011 09:44

Could you explain it, if it's not true?

Bubbley "They just consider the foetus' life as well as the mother's. " This is not true anti choice people, or so called pro life, do not consider the mother at all. And make clear choices, unless no abortions under any circumstances (which is a very brave stance that noone really takes) otherwise the permission to abort is dependent on whether the woman deserves a choice in which case the foetus suddenly doesn't matter.

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 27/06/2011 09:49

CheerfulYank, I can understand your reasoning though I don't agree with you. But the vast majority of 'pro-life' people don't think like that: for them it's all foetus worship and hatred of women. If they really cared about babies they'd be agitating for better maternity care, more support for mothers and all the rest of it. But foetus worshippers don't care about babies once they are born. What they really hate is the idea of women being people with autonomy, hence their fondness for all these campaigns to prosecute PG women for drinking alcohol etc.

CheerfulYank · 27/06/2011 10:06

Yes, SGB , that is sadly true. Which is why, though I do feel pro-life about a lot of things, I have never voted for a politician who was not pro-choice simply because I felt that the staunchly pro-life candidates were demanding that these women carry their children to term and then doing fuck-all to help them after that. I can't support that.

But I do find it unbearably sad that some women feel they have to abort because of school or money, etc. There should be support systems in place for them. And I find it tragic that the MAP is hard to come by in some places, or contraception at all for that matter. Surely if these things were more readily available, the choice to terminate or not wouldn't effect so many women. (Or affect? Confused I need sleeeeeep...)

CrapolaDeVille · 27/06/2011 10:21

Cheerful.... better contraception would help reduce termination rates and perhaps more onus on an absent father to financially contribute....this may make boys/men wear condoms.

dontquotem3 · 27/06/2011 10:39

It's like reading about somewhere in the Middle East. Why?
I second what ronshar said, take a good look at Islam.

But by God that's a terrible read. It brings to mind something that Clive Stafford Smith once said in a Hardtalk interview with the BBC, to paraphrase "when they (america) have finished with everyone else that's when they going to start on you" i.e their own people. Wise words.

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 27/06/2011 11:04

While I don't believe that all of America is reflected in this story and this trend, I do think it's a worrying trend. The Handmaid's Tale has never seemed so prescient ...

slug · 27/06/2011 11:08

Loved this comment though

knittedbreast · 27/06/2011 15:02

ok. i just clicked on that website. please someone tell me it was created as a piss take? children pretending to have sex on all fours? do black people make good pets?

my eyes are burning

NoobyNoob · 27/06/2011 15:08

Goodness me, I don't think I've ever read anything so terrifying and sad.

knittedbreast · 27/06/2011 15:16

noobynoob, did you read the article or the right wing website?

NoobyNoob · 27/06/2011 15:21

Sorry, I didn't realise I had to clarify my response knittedbreast

knittedbreast · 27/06/2011 15:28

i was just asking if "goodness me, i dont think ive ever read anything so terrifying and sad" was a response to the article or a link to a right wing christian website.

i asked since there were 8 pages

OK?

Catitainahatita · 27/06/2011 15:32

Bubbleymummy: my phone wouldn't let me add [http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=3225 this] link nor [http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/Embryo] which explains that a embyro becomes a foetus at week 8 from fertilization, that is to say week 10 in more common terms of the gestational age or at the beginning of the third month of pregnancy (the origin of my mistake of saying 12 weeks, which I apologise for).

giveitago · 27/06/2011 15:48

'America seems to embody the madonna/whore complex today. ' Just like alot of countries already do. Sad.

bubbleymummy · 27/06/2011 16:07

nighttowl - she obviously wanted to kill herself AND the baby - it was an intent to do harm. Do you think she wanted the baby to survive when she took rat poison?

cat - I take it you don't consider an embryo a life then? What about a foetus? When does it become a life to you? Only when it reaches 24 weeks? What about when abortions used to be allowed at later stages than that?

My point about correct terminology was in relation to my earlier post about women who refer to foetuses at much later stages of development as embryos or 'bundles of cells" which seems to suggest that they can't face the reality of what it is they are actually doing. It was in response to the post about having to look at a scan prior to having the abortion. If the woman can't look at that ie face the reality of it, and still be sure about her decision then she obviously needs to think again.

bubbleymummy · 27/06/2011 16:20

Crapola "the rape victim's 'baby' and disabled 'baby' having equal rights..."

Are you saying that they do not deserve the same rights as 'normal' babies? What about after they are born? Are they still 'different' then?

Re not being able to accept abortion in certain circumstances. In cases where the mother's life is in danger (unless the baby can be delivered early to allow them both a chance of survival) then I can see how some people can accept this because it can be seen as 'saving a life' rather than simply terminating one. The choice for the woman is simply life or death.

"This is not true anti choice people, or so called pro life, do not consider the mother at all. "

Firstly, should I start referring to you as 'anti-life' or 'pro-abortion'?

Complete rubbish that pro life people don't consider the mother - it is possible to consider both. Something which pro-choicers can't seem to understand because as far as they are considered the woman is the only one who matters. Pro-lifers disagree.

CheerfulYank · 27/06/2011 16:41

OH MY GOD of course that site is a piss-take! Are you serious?!

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 27/06/2011 20:54

I can't get the link to work. ANd some outrageously offensive humour would be nice round about now...

CurlyBoy · 27/06/2011 21:24

Here's an interesting story on how the right to choose is continually being eroded in the US.

motherjones.com/politics/2011/06/abortion-foes-latest-backdoor-ban

I think the only thing left for the US is for it to split into two countries. Let the bible thumping, foetus loving, misogynist right winger have one part and the free thinking, liberal left wingers have the other. The US has become way too polarised and scary for my liking.

Catitainahatita · 27/06/2011 21:31

I respect your belief that life begins at conception, Bubbleymummy. You find abortion abhorrent and I also respect that. I assume you are also against abortion for women who have been raped since you believe this to be true. Moreover, I assume then that you think abortion and infanticide are the same thing.

In the light of this, my question is: do think abortion might be allowed in the case of rape or if the pregnant woman's life is in danger? In the event of an affirmative answer, I would ask you on what criteria you distinguish the embyro/foetus product of rape/endangering the mother's life to be aborted and the baby to be murdered?
In the case of a negative answer: if you are going to sustain a complete oppostion to abortion I think you should be clear in your own mind why you think the woman's life is less valuable than that of the embyro/foetus.

CheerfulYank · 27/06/2011 22:06

Curlyboy many of us have views that fall on either side of the spectrum, though. Or even - gasp - in the middle.

CheerfulYank · 27/06/2011 22:09

Both sides of the spectrum, I meant. Gah! That's what I get for not proofreading.

What I meant was, I have many friends who are Christian and pro-gay marriage. Most are pro-choice but a few have pro-life leanings in some cases. Some are religious and free thinkers at the same time. Some are screamingly liberal in some ways but financially conservative. Which country in your hypothetically split America would you suggest they move to?

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