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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think America is a frightening place to be a woman right now?

457 replies

BornSicky · 24/06/2011 23:05

Pregnant women facing murder charges

This is bullying at a nightmarish level.

I find it foul and despicable that women are being villified in such a way. How did the Christian right-wing become so powerful?

Truly, truly scary.

How can these bad laws (including the new "inspections" (read closures) of abortion clinics in Kansas) come to be passed? How can they be stopped?

OP posts:
Tee2072 · 30/06/2011 20:03

Tad, in NI it is legal in those cases.

tadjennyp · 30/06/2011 20:16

Thank you tee.

CoteDAzur · 30/06/2011 21:05

"100% of all babies die in any kind of abortion or are you one of those who think a baby is only a baby if the mother happens to want it?"

An embryo is NOT a baby. That is why it is called "an embryo" rather than "a baby".

An embryo is a seed that might become a baby if left to grow in favorable conditions. A baby is a small person.

If you don't even understand the basic concepts, you have no place in is debate between rational adults.

MilaMae · 30/06/2011 21:18

Erm Cote I think they're a little more than a seed.

I find this a difficult subject as when I was young I was very pro choice then when nature decided to make things difficult and we ended doing IVF which produced my twin boys who were 2 of 3 very ropey embryos frozen for a year my views have changed slightly.

I and saw the pulsing heartbeats of all 3 of mine at 6 weeks(2 were IVF,1 a surprise).Google "pictures of 6 week embryos" and you'll see that they are far more than a seed or a group of cells.

I wouldn't ever dictate to anybody as I've never been desperate,raped or lived through awful circumstances thankfully although I did have an unplanned pg at an extremely difficult time.

I just sometimes think talking away embryos as just "seeds" not worth even thinking about is wrong.I'm all for choice but think women need to be honest as in years to come they may wish they'd looked honesty in the face.

AnnieLobeseder · 30/06/2011 21:24

Wow. Some people are terrified of the more extremist Islamic states because of the threats they might pose to the West. Others are threatened by China's rising power.

Me, I'm absolutely petrified of America. Their ultra-conservative views, appalling treatment of workers, their only-if-you-can-afford-it-healthcare.... and all with such power and influence over the rest of the world.

That is one of the scariest articles I've read in a while.

slhilly · 30/06/2011 21:48

How Larry can write this: "To allow a woman who is 8 months pregnant to abort her baby on a whim is not to trade one person's equal right to another" and complain about another person making a straw man argument is utterly beyond me.

Care to provide some actual facts, Larry? How many women a year abort pregnancies 8 months in on a whim? In the UK or anywhere else? Indeed, how many actually abort pregnancies 8 months in, at all? Do you know?

In the UK, the actual facts, Larry, are that 90% of abortions are carried out at under 13 weeks. 20,000 a year are 13 weeks or over, and that number hasn't materially changed in a decade. In 2008, 124 of the nearly 200,000 abortions that year were at 24 weeks or over. That tiny proportion have all happened for one of three reasons:

  1. Without the abortion, the woman is likely to die
  2. Without the abortion, the woman is likely to suffer serious harm
  3. The baby is likely to be severely disabled
None of those is really quite fits with "ooh, I fancy killing my unborn child after having carried them nearly to term", does it?

So can I suggest that, for posterity, you print out your posts expressing moral indignation with theoretical feminist constructions that apparently promote late term abortions, fold them up until they're all sharp corners, and then stick them far enough up where the sun don't shine that there's a chance you can read it. You could also spend some time on the DH website, where information on what actually happens is readily available if you want to do some actual research.

AnnieLobeseder · 30/06/2011 21:52

And now that I've read more of the thread...

HOW THE FLAMING FUCK DID A THREAD ABOUT AN APPALLING AND HORRIFYING EROSION OF WOMEN'S RIGHTS THAT SHOULD HAVE ALL OF US COMING TOGETHER IN OUTRAGE AND PROTEST TURN INTO A FUCKING PATHETIC BUNFIGHT ABOUT ABORTION?

I am so fucking ashamed to be a women right now.

slhilly · 30/06/2011 21:57

Annie, while I understand how you feel, I think men have quite a bit more to feel ashamed about...

bubbleymummy · 30/06/2011 22:03

tad, abortion is permitted in NI when the woman's life is at risk.

bubbleymummy · 30/06/2011 22:03

oops Tee - should have read ahead!

AnnieLobeseder · 30/06/2011 22:06

I have constant outrage about the sins of men, Shlily. However, just for tonight, my outrage is for the posters on this thread.

AnnieLobeseder · 30/06/2011 22:07

sorry, slhilly, not shlilly

slhilly · 30/06/2011 22:08

So much to be outraged about, so little time....I wish that was a more straightforwardly funny statement instead of a black joke

bubbleymummy · 30/06/2011 22:08

Cote - why do you keep going on about embryos - abortion is allowed up to 24 weeks. It is called a foetus beyond 8 weeks. Do you only agree with abortion at embryo stage or something?

slhilly - IIRC Larry was addressing posts made by SGB where she was talking about how abortion should be available up to term for whatever reason the woman chooses.

Maybe you should do some folding and sticking yourself my dear... :)

CheerfulYank · 30/06/2011 22:16

It became a bunfight because it's a topic on which many people hold strong views.

CheerfulYank · 30/06/2011 22:19

And also, the article is called " Outcry in America" not "America Stands and Applauds as Pregnant Women Who Lose Babies Face Murder Charges".

Again, abortion is legal in every single state in our country. It is not across the United Kingdom.

AnnieLobeseder · 30/06/2011 22:21

But in the face of this threat against the rights of all women, no matter what their views on abortion, why on earth would anyone think this was an appropriate place to start an argument about abortion, which is only vaguely relevant to the original topic.

AnnieLobeseder · 30/06/2011 22:22

Oh, and I think you'll find that Ireland isn't part of the United Kingdom.

CheerfulYank · 30/06/2011 22:25

Really? We were always taught that it was. And wikipedia says it is, not that THAT means anything. Confused

AnnieLobeseder · 30/06/2011 22:25

While outcry over this law is good, the fact that is has been and still is being used to prosecute women should have all of us joining the outcry, not sweeping it aside to promote our own views on another subject altogether.

CheerfulYank · 30/06/2011 22:26

We learned England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales in school...

AnnieLobeseder · 30/06/2011 22:26

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom Which is not the same country as Ireland.

CheerfulYank · 30/06/2011 22:30

But not all of us have the same views on the subject.

I am very, very reluctantly pro-choice, but even my reluctance will not stop me from driving down there my damn self and protesting on the steps if that poor woman is incarcerated.

I would rather not get into an argument at all, but I'll respond if anyone posts that my entire country is "fucking insane" or that because I don't believe that a woman should be able to have an abortion up til the moment of birth in all cases that I am a "fetus-worshipper" who "whines and slobbers".

CheerfulYank · 30/06/2011 22:31

Yes, and abortion is only legal in Northern Ireland in exceptional circumstances.

AnnieLobeseder · 30/06/2011 22:42

I have looked that up, and yes, it is true, which I find sad.

But, I see no point in getting in a "my country has better laws than your country" argument. Again, it detracts from the issue.