to think that you can either have a clean, tidy and uncluttered house OR happy children but not both?

[GreenTeapot]

Or can you manage both? How do you do it?

A dozen children?

Really?

We briefly employed a cleaner.

DH used to do the typical male 'oh ho ho! My wife's so obsessive she tidies before the cleaner comes!" thing . As I pointed out to him, I was paying the cleaner for her to clean. If she had to spend an hours worth of our hard-earned tidying so that she could see the floor in order to hoover it then I was wasting my money.

"you can either have a clean, tidy and uncluttered house OR happy children but not both?"

My children would be a lot more miserable if they - and I - were living in an untidy, dirty house, I can promise you!

I often wonder if you can be dirty with happy children, when i watch filth fighters, how clean is your house or horders those families never seem happy most of the people un hinged the houses army just untidy their dirty

I clean whilst the children are at school I not overly mad but I have raised my children to clean up after themselves,

I been to people houses were they have dirty underwear on the sofa think that says more about their lack of shame than it dose about me and my hoovered carpet .

Got to dash out again but came back with a ponderance - do you think I could employ a "tidyer" to clear up the crap? I actually quite like cleaning, once I can find whatever it is that needs cleaned amidst the detritus!

The good thing about these topics is that it reminds me to get off MN and do some cleaning .

Yes. I have 3 children under 5. We live in a generally clutter free house because I take the time to do little and often on a daily basis. Nothing builds up to the point where its ever grubby/untidy. I love a calm, clean environment. We have 3 happy, healthy, children.

Our place is clean and tidy - because we have a lot of space and a lot of help. If I had to do it all myself, I don't know...

Obviously there are posters here who feel they have the balance right, and that's great but there are women (c'mon we all know them) who don't let their children have any fun for fear of their home getting untidy.
Women who get all shouty and impatient if there's any mess.
That can't be any nicer than living in a complete mess can it?

The fewer things you have, the less potential there is for mess. And having lots of good quality, well organised storage suitable for your own purposes and possessions makes keeping your home tidy hugely much easier.

Oh yes Hully, you don't get families like mine any more. One side effect of growing up amongst so many siblings is I knew exactly what to expect during the newbord phase.

I'm very much a work in progress on the clean and tidy front, but think I'm sort of in the middle at the moment. My house would not meet some MNers standards, but it's nearly all tidy, and mainly clean and hygienic enough.

Some things I have learnt on my journey from uber-slattern to reasonable housekeeper -

• I had perfectionist ideals that I couldn't live up to, so nothing got done. Be at ease with the fact that you may not get it as perfect as you like in the time or with the resources at your disposal. Just do what you can.
• Tidying up as you go and putting things away take very little time and become second nature quickly if you keep persisting. I'm not all the way there, but much improved.
• Ornaments are a complete waste of time and money.
• Just get rid of stuff! I didn't have room for all my kitchen stuff. I realised that I hardly used a lot of it, so I got rid and now everything fits in the cupboards. Having things in cupbaords/boxes etc. immeidately looks tidier and is easier to dust.
• I had loads of towels. Handy if you run out. But I always ended up with them all in the wash, so I chucked the tattier half of towel mountain out and rarely run out.
• I don't iron. Not that I wouldn't like to, but it's not included in the things I worry about at present (like limescale and tannin I'm afraid LeQ). I have chosen what things I can cope with and can bring more into my routines when I'm ready to.

The trouble is there are times when you just have to let the cleaning/tidying/decluttering slide in order for the child to be happy...like when there's a newborn, or a teething baby, or an ill child, or a heartbroken teen.

Stress tends to rear its head when at those times, the tidy person can't relax up. Sometimes one just has to say the pots will wait.

My house is definitely clean but untidy a lot of the time. On cleaning days, I tidy away all the toys, hoover and mop all the floors, and then my two dds (3 and 9 months) come and scatter plastic tat all over the shop in record time.

I haven't read the thread but I just want to say I agree with whatever LeQueen said.

Fellow travellers in the Virgo approach to childcare and cleaning.

Right, I'm off to read the thread now.

Some good ideas on here - I'm with Lesley and Sidge. Clear up as you go along and teach your kids to do the same. It's just as easy to put something away as dump it in a pile and much easier to find it afterwards. My house is tidy and my kids are happy - small flat or big house it's just a question of being organised. And I totally agree with Bonsoir - the people with the messiest houses always have too much stuff in my experience. If you haven't got room for it throw it away - I also operate a strict one in one out policy for purchases. It's not about spending hours and hours cleaning it's about not letting the place get into a state in the first place - much easier all round.

"I just realised I put pristeen instead of pristine. Google tells me that "Pristeen" is a genital deodorant. Sorry about that"

wordfactory - Of course there are times when it will go to pot. But as long as you get back into the routine of it, then thats fine.

Agree Lillian - putting a book on a bookshelf or a mug in the dishwasher takes seconds longer than leaving a book on the sofa or putting a mug on the work surface. And it really is habit.

I'm sure I'd manage it if we had a bigger house with more room to store stuff. As it is I'm followed around by the whirlwind that is ds2, who trashes everything as soon as I've tidied. A playroom would be marvellous.

I just think some people are naturally more tidy than others, some just pick up as they go along without a second thought, and some people (DP, I'm looking at you) just have this ability to cause mayhem within seconds of walking in a room..

(much like people who are on time, and people who are consistently late in a way, I suppose)

I am on a journey from slattern to domestic goddess - a bit sidetracked at the moment with DD2 being only 2 weeks old. But anyway, I've joined the cult of flylady and have learnt a lot about myself and my home. The main thing being that cleaning is a constant process of lots of little jobs rather than a one off job.

For those of you who say it only takes 5 mins to sweep up - it does but only if you do it a lot. It is very hard to look at a messy but basically clean house and know where to start. Once your house is tidy it is easier to keep it that way. For me, it is all about having routines that you do each day - little and often.

But I don't want to get as bad as my MIL. She couldn't have a job when DH and his brother were young as she needed the time to clean the house. They had to play with cars on a tray so that they didn't bump into anything and dent it. DH has all sorts of stories about her obsession with keeping the house clean and tidy but it meant that DH never had friends round and life was very stressful.

There must be a happy medium where people can live in a clean, tidy house but still actually live in it!

Jareth I think you are absolutely right. I think if you are organised and tidy before you have kids you will be organised afterwards, if you are messy and disorganised before kids you will be even worse afterwards - but use the kids and their mess as an excuse for the chaos.

Right. I have read the thread now. I do agree with LeQueen and others of similar mind.

Our happy children live in a clean and tidy house. That is not a contradiction.

I would be incredibly stressed living in a dirty untidy house. It is not hard to achieve such a state of order and our children enjoy that order.

The key is to have a few rules. It really is so easy once you have a system.

Our children eat in the kitchen and on special occassions in the dining room. They do not eat anywhere else. CattleProd we do not tolerate chocolate anywhere but at the table.

Shoes off at the door and stored under the stairs.

Children completely banned from designated rooms except when accompanied by an adult. Tidy their own play and work rooms once a week. Biro and other pens not allowed outside work room.

Tidy the kitchen and completely clear all surfaces before we go to bed.

I clean all rooms thoroughly once a week. Ironing must be completley cleared and empty all washing bins every 3 days.

Tidy up and file away papers as we go along.

morebeta - you gave me a good laugh there during a dull day at work - thanks. Especially about the designated rooms rofl.

I'm not naturally tidy. I'm an absolute slob by nature It takes a daily effort to make sure the house stays tidy and the jobs are all done. It doesn't come naturally at all. But it's worth it because I like looking at a kitchen with shiny clear worktops and I like sitting down in a living room with nothing out of place.

But I am a throw my coat on the floor, send one shoe flying one way and the other the other way, pile cups up on the windowsill type of person by nature. And if I don't keep control and stay on top of it, the place would be a slum within a week.

So I don't think that those with tidy houses necessarily have them because they are a particular sort of neatfreak person

omnishambles - doesn't everyone have designated child free rooms?