to think that you can either have a clean, tidy and uncluttered house OR happy children but not both?

[GreenTeapot]

Or can you manage both? How do you do it?

Bast - vom.

I've already got one of those gruesome "friends" poems that a dear but misguided friend gave me and I have to keep on the fridege. It takes huge and heroic efforts not to explain it to all visitors. Humbling and good for the soul tho.

Yes, I don't get this idea that there's no time to sweep the floor because you're off riding bikes or picking apples or looking at worms or whatever.

It takes two minutes to sweep the floor!

Do a little bit every day, as you go along, do a fifteen minute blitz when you put the kids to bed, you're not depriving them of anything.

LeQueen actually thanks for mentioning your SIL, it actually helps to know I wasn't the only one (all the kids at my school were so clean!)

I get very stressed if the house is not clean. I put up with today's mess/toys/even dirt but not last week's or last month's, thats the big difference imo.

I agree with others that the key is to ensure everything belongs somewhere. Our kitchen is always clean and tidy because everything has its own place, but the sitting room is more of a dumping ground so it becomes more of a mess

Also, if you tidy up as you go along, put plates away straight after a meal etc, then it's easier

Sighs

But then, the seven year old who was apparently 'ill' wanted to draw and so did her sister (4) and of course DD3 (2) then has to join in too.

And I was busy chucking away headless barbies

Clean your floor, you lazy cows.

If I saw that poem on someone's frigge I would have to deface it with a huge picture of a willy, frankly, the type that used to be drawn all over science textbooks/toilet doors at school.

Worra lorra sanctimonious SHIT

'it takes 2 minutes to sweep the floor'.

Yes, but in some houses it would take 1 hour to clear the clutter in order to sweep so you end up putting it off. Thats why i dont like clutter. Same with kitchen worktops, 1 min to wipe them if they are clear but 2 hours if they are full of stuff.

lol at the friendship magnet on hully's fridge.

Christ, that is a real test of friendship right there.

'my dear friend you are so much to me
I will always love you, you will see
You are so special, are so kind
You are always wonderful, that I find'

In swirly copperplate

don't want to depress anyone... but teenagers are worse! they stay up later than you too, and come home in the early hours "needing" food - so the tidy kitchen you left when you went to bed is chaos at 7am when you get up to feed dogs and get the youngest up for school... oh and once they start GCSEs piles of coursework start appearing on flat surfaces.. which you can't move because they'll have a meltdown (it's their art project and they didn't have time to glue all the pieces down, or all the papers were in a certain order and no way can they revise for history NOW!).

Having said that, dd and one of her friends did a very good post-exam job on the living room yesterday - spotless and tidy - lovely!

My teenager's bedroom is chaos - if she wants to live like stig of the dump she can I make her blotz it once a month.

DD has her share of chores, if she doesn't do those or leaves the kitchen in a shit tip her allowance is cut. So she cleans up after herself. There is no excuse.

And the worst thing...is that other people see it and assume I like it so they breed. Agggghhhhh.

Never realised the words "clean" and "tidy" were not the same thing until DCs arrived...never compromised on the first, realised the second was like shovelling snow in winter, as someone pointed out above. Have lowered my standards to the dogs. Agree storage helps a lot though, had a huge toy hamper in living room that everything was chucked into at bedtime when they were pre-school.

Yes you can - our home we enter into the kitchen as no hall, and then go through to a medium sized lounge.

Our kitchen is always tidy - although occassionally there will be bits of paper work on the side (but not for long) - we have 2 small cupboards 1 with all the childrens tuppaware etc and another with playdough/paint/paper etc. Coats/bags are also hung on pegs in the kitchen and shoes in the basket.

Then you walk into the lounge, we have 2 large sofas with cushions on, and is very neat and tidy. We have a toy storage thing with baskets behind one of the sofas in the bit under the stairs. DC can get out any toys they like but they need to put them all away in the toy storage at the end of the day. We tend to have lots of playdates etc so it's not tidy most the time.

Upstairs DC has a couple of toys in his bedroom as well as a book box. Again they can play in the bedroom but it must be tidied up.

Rest of the house is uncluttered and tidy.

Oh Hully.

You must get a whole world of pain at birthday times.

Lladro ornaments
Forever friends satin cushions
'Friendship' mugs

If my daughter had ever said 'mommy' I would have ignored her anyway.

No no not the Lladro (my Mum has that tho so can't say nowt as love ol Mummy)

Royal Daulton figurines in crinolines
Little teddy bears wearing t shirts with love hearts printed on 'em
Christmas cards with DEAREST FRIEND written on them in silver foil

You are friendly, kind and caring
Sensitive, loyal and understanding
Humorous, fun, secure and true
Always there... yes that's you.

Special, accepting, exciting and wise
Truthful and helpful, with honest blue eyes
Confiding, forgiving, cheerful and bright
Yes that's you... not one bit of spite.

You're one of a kind, different from others
Generous, charming, but not one that smothers
Optimistic, thoughtful, happy and game
But not just another... in the long chain.

Appreciative, warm and precious like gold
Our friendship won't tarnish or ever grow old
You'll always be there, I know that is true
I'll always be here... always for you.

I think that last line sounds kinda threatening

My ds gave me a teddy in a pink tutu...I have to stare very hard at friends before they snigger

Hahahaaaaa! lol at that!

It's like Every Breath You Take by the Police.

Be careful Hully - she has installed a keylogger on your laptop and has Her Eye On You. She is sharpening her Kathy Bates axe as we speak...

I think you can.

It's not always tidy during the day when DD2 (15 mo) has her toys everywhere, but they go away after tea.

We have quite a small house, only one reception room so messy doesn't work for us (plus I'm quite a tidy person anyway).

I keep things as tidy as possible, but don't get in the way of the kids playing.

I grew up with a mum like foxters - the house had to be immaculate and if anything was out of place we heard about it.

I spend at least 2 hours each day cleaning while the dc's are at school and although my friends insist my house is spotless, I know its not up to my mother's standards.

When home, the dc's know that dirty dishes belong in the sink and clothes that have been worn go in the laundry straight away but if the house is awash with toys and the duvets on the floor to make a den, they know I won't bat an eye.