DH keeps spending. AIBU to be pissed off?

[Purplegirlie]

Have namechanged.

My DH has always been a bit of a spendthrift. We've never really had any savings as he spends everything. We have three children and I have always tried to budget. I meal plan each week. He then decides he doesn't fancy what we're having for tea and goes to the shop and spends £20. Some weeks we probably spend in excess of £80 over budget because of his spending. He won't save up to do things to the house, he just buys things regardless. He was obsessed with getting a new sofa and as soon as we'd paid off our existing one (which is fine) he ordered another one. He insisted on having our living room ceiling re-plastered without saving up for it, so now we are £500 down.

He does shooting and had an expensive gun. A few months ago he decided to buy another expensive gun and said he would sell his old one. He never sold it and has decided not to sell it even though he doesn't use it. He got a dog to take shooting recently and spent over £700 getting the dog, and equipment for it, and things like vaccinations.

The thing is, he doesn't earn enough to sustain this spending. We already got into lots of debt before because of his spending and we got straight about 2 years ago and now I am finding credit card bills that have been run up again. His job is temporary and he won't look for another job. He wants to earn lots of money (in his words) but won't do anything to achieve that. He has turned down 2 opportunities recently; one a permanent job and one to be a business partner in a friend's business (DH is in a trade and his trade would compliment his friend's trade). If I try to talk to him about getting another job or about our finances he either starts singing or does that type of talking people do when they're going off to sleep, with his eyes closed and all muttering and talking nonsense.

I work part time from home, but obviously the more we earn between us, the more he spends. It doesn't seem fair that I am shopping at Primark and charity shops for the kids and I, whilst he is spending hundreds of pounds on his hobbies, extra food from the shop, etc. Any money that I manage to get, he spends it. I made a couple of hundred quid doing boot sales with unwanted stuff we had, and he had mentally spent it before I'd got it, and sure enough it was spent straight away on stuff for decorating the living room. A family member gave me some money the other day to buy myself something to wear and DH straight away said "Oh you can put that in the spends pot in the kitchen", basically meaning I should spend it on milk, bread and school dinner money whilst he has a gun worth 1k sitting unused in his gun cabinet.

I think the problem is he has 2 friends that are also complete spendaholics. One spends regardless and has been made bankrupt before but he still spends and spends and just says he'll go bankrupt again one day. The other owns a business and probably earns a fair bit more than DH so obviously his spending power is going to be more. If he gets something, DH has to get it too.

AIBU to be highly pissed off?

Firstly forget about the gun, if you don't have a licence and you move it or sell the police can seize it and you get feck all for it. He isn't going to sell it. My dh shoots so I know how they are about guns.

Cartridges go up £10 per 1000 today accross the board btw.

If having a wife and dc doesn't make him grow a pair nothing will.

I know this is harsh but he needs to go. I don't say this lightly at all but if he doesn't change till he hits rockbottom eg bankruptcy you have to deal with it and they will have everything off you barring essentials and dc belongings.

I just don't see a happy ending to this he is acting like money grows on trees which is how kids think.

Oh, and as for his mate, you can't just 'go bankrupt'. You have to pay for it, first of all, secondly, you must submit all your financial statements to the courts and Office of Accountants in Bankrupcy and sign a statement saying it's all true.

If you have assets, your creditors can get attachments to them. They can get a slice of any earnings brought in.

It's not a matter of 'Run up debts spending, don't fancy paying, bankrupt.'

purplegirlie

With the greatest respect the fact that you may be going out "anyway" and could have a chat then is not going to cut the mustard I don't think.

It needs to be a "I feel SO strongly about this that I have engineered a night out specifically for this reason. To tell you that if your attitude towards money DOESN't change and quick, then I will have to take drastic action.

You sound afraid of having this confrontation, as if you don't want to rock the boat. This is not going to improve until he knows how serious you really are.

So, by getting into debt again, he's risking the roof over your heads.

i wouldnt have the talk on the night out either - you will probs end up rowing/sulking and getting nothing resolved

i think the time for talking is over, its time for action now

He sings or pretends to be sleeping.

And you're going to have a talk whilst on a night out.

Honestly, you're as bad as each other.

Get a copy of your joint credit rating to make sure he isn't hiding other debts/loans/credit cards or has applied and been turned down. The credit report will tell you all the debts paid off or owed, how much is outstanding and if the payments are up to date. You can arrange to be sent an alert that tells you if anyone at your address applies for credit. Trust me this is very serious and if he is made bankrupt the creditors WILL come after you and YOUR assets that includes your home/car/life insurance/pension. You need to start making plans to protect yourself. It takes seven years to clear a poor credit rating and you will not have access to any credit at all. It is grim I tell you. Bankruptcy will also affect all future insurance policies and mortgage/loan applications even after you have been discharged (unless you lie). If he faces up to the problem consider doing an IVA. Please get some help from National Debtline and Experian

Goodluck OP.

The idea of you having to cut back is very familiar too. Heaven forbid DH should buy a bit of extra fruit or replace DCs shoes when they needed it. TBH it shows there is a lot more to this than just being crap with money and being selfish, it's all about control. My parents are always spending beyond their means, which is bad of course, but they don't control each other. Your DH's spending speaks volumes about his general view of you and your DC and that is really sad :(

Forgot to add that if he sees the amount of indebtedness in black & white it might jolt him into recognising the problem.

he really needs to get counselling.

here

When I googled it, loads of links to discussions just like yours came up.

Sorry, but I think this is where it is heading - have a read around here...

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=76 and forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=136

A number of people in those desperate straits are there because of their partners.

I hope you find this helpful and good luck

'It takes seven years to clear a poor credit rating and you will not have access to any credit at all. '

You actually do have access to credit after the bankrupcy is discharged, it's just at crummy rates. And, legally, after it is discharged, there are laws in place regarding treatment of a bankrupt with regards to insurance policies, jobs and the likes, particularly after 6 years. There are also laws regarding creditors and pensions (creditors such as HMRC and the courts are often allowed more leeway, however).

But the real issue is if you have assets, such as a home, investments, basically anything worth over £1000, these can be at real risk.

Bankrupcy used to be for life, but this is no longer true and laws have been modified to reflect this.

Is there any particular longstanding reason - beyond this ridiculous desire to keep up with his friends - for his attitude towards money? I ask this because I had a friend whose H also spent money as if it came off trees. He had to have the latest of everything, be it stuff for the house or for his particular hobbies and all his hobbies were expensive ones. The last being flying model helicopters which cost an absolute packet. She was someone who had always saved for expensive items and never been in debt but her H wouldn't listen to reason and she eventually discovered he'd forged her signature on several loan agreements and they were, literally, up to their eyes in debts he'd run up.

She thought that his attitude went back to childhood because he was the youngest child and only boy in a family of girls. He'd had an older brother who'd died at the age of 5, and friend's H had been spoilt with every demand he made met by his doting parents.

I'm sorry to say that nothing she could do would make him see sense about money. Spreadsheets, copies of bank statements, rows, attempts to get him to see a money adviser. None of it. In the end she gave him an ultimatum - stop spending like an idiot or I leave you. He still didn't listen and went out and bought yet another sodding helicopter. She left him. The outcome was tragic.

I'm not a great believer in ultimatums because really, adult people shouldn't need to be forced to see sense by such drastic measures but I think, OP, that you have reached the stage where this is the only course of action. Protect yourself as much as possible first though. Get your wages paid into your account and check out whether you are liable for the debts he's run up again. If necessary, go to the bank and tell them the situation and ask them to take your name off the joint accout (they may be reluctant to do this without his consent but they ought to take note of your circumstances) and take some legal advice.

Best of luck to you though.

Bloody hell OP, what a shambles.

My DH is useless with money, but he knows it and therefore he gives it all to me and I manage our finances. He also works extremely hard and has tripled his salary in the last 3 years in order that we can have a secure home and lifestyle for our DCs while still having money for him to buy new camera lenses and other shite bits and pieces for his photography.

If he behaved like your DH did I would leave him, no question.

If he had to explain his financial decisions to an 'outsider', with you there too, he might be less in denial, perhaps? Maybe there is a sensible older friend or relative you could enlist, who could offer to conduct an audit of your household spending, and put your DH straight on a few things?

One of your dads, mums or grandparents perhaps? Vicar, rabbi, priest? Mate who's an accountant?

If he won't listen to you, it might bring his behaviour home to him if he has to explain himself in front of someone else - and it is a good time to extract a businesslike commitment from him, when someone else is present.

My heart goes out to you - this must be so frustrating to live with, and you deserve better. You'd feel happier if financially independent, even if you ended up poorer as a result. And what use is a dual income if it is frittered away like this? You are getting no joy out of it at all -only the worry.

He needs help. Whether it be a mental health nurse, debt counsellor or what. His behaviour and attitude are not normal and there is something fundamentally wrong. In your heart, you know this. You also know what you need to do next.

Start seperating your assets now , talk to specialists, what everyone else has said. From what you've said it seems highly unlikely he will change. Good luck, OP.

Make him sit down with you when the kids are in bed.

Have it written down on a budget sheet how much things are on a monthly basis, food, electric, water etc.

Then under that put the money coming in and then tell him to work out whats left after all the bills above. Then ask him why he thinks you can afford to buy things.

Then show him the second list, on this list put things down that you need kids clothes, shoes, your clothes, shoes, things you need in the house, a cheap holiday fund to look foward to something.

When he kicks off about money

option one say fuck it if your gonna go out and spend loads of money on crap Im going shopping on your next day off and Im gonna spend £500 on clothes for me seeing as you just wasted all that money on guns. Maybe that might wake him up???

option two tell him you are parents to children and you cant afford to live his way anymore and you need to be able to afford to buy things. If he cant handle it then leave you cant live like this anymore.

Kicking him out for afew nights will help. My friend ended up 15k in debt and got help for free. Click on google she got a finacial advisor and he was good, he wrote to all of her credit cards. Got them to stop putting interest on the money owed. Worked out how much she should pay back each month, and after two years she was back on track.