DH keeps spending. AIBU to be pissed off?

[Purplegirlie]

Have namechanged.

My DH has always been a bit of a spendthrift. We've never really had any savings as he spends everything. We have three children and I have always tried to budget. I meal plan each week. He then decides he doesn't fancy what we're having for tea and goes to the shop and spends £20. Some weeks we probably spend in excess of £80 over budget because of his spending. He won't save up to do things to the house, he just buys things regardless. He was obsessed with getting a new sofa and as soon as we'd paid off our existing one (which is fine) he ordered another one. He insisted on having our living room ceiling re-plastered without saving up for it, so now we are £500 down.

He does shooting and had an expensive gun. A few months ago he decided to buy another expensive gun and said he would sell his old one. He never sold it and has decided not to sell it even though he doesn't use it. He got a dog to take shooting recently and spent over £700 getting the dog, and equipment for it, and things like vaccinations.

The thing is, he doesn't earn enough to sustain this spending. We already got into lots of debt before because of his spending and we got straight about 2 years ago and now I am finding credit card bills that have been run up again. His job is temporary and he won't look for another job. He wants to earn lots of money (in his words) but won't do anything to achieve that. He has turned down 2 opportunities recently; one a permanent job and one to be a business partner in a friend's business (DH is in a trade and his trade would compliment his friend's trade). If I try to talk to him about getting another job or about our finances he either starts singing or does that type of talking people do when they're going off to sleep, with his eyes closed and all muttering and talking nonsense.

I work part time from home, but obviously the more we earn between us, the more he spends. It doesn't seem fair that I am shopping at Primark and charity shops for the kids and I, whilst he is spending hundreds of pounds on his hobbies, extra food from the shop, etc. Any money that I manage to get, he spends it. I made a couple of hundred quid doing boot sales with unwanted stuff we had, and he had mentally spent it before I'd got it, and sure enough it was spent straight away on stuff for decorating the living room. A family member gave me some money the other day to buy myself something to wear and DH straight away said "Oh you can put that in the spends pot in the kitchen", basically meaning I should spend it on milk, bread and school dinner money whilst he has a gun worth 1k sitting unused in his gun cabinet.

I think the problem is he has 2 friends that are also complete spendaholics. One spends regardless and has been made bankrupt before but he still spends and spends and just says he'll go bankrupt again one day. The other owns a business and probably earns a fair bit more than DH so obviously his spending power is going to be more. If he gets something, DH has to get it too.

AIBU to be highly pissed off?

Yes of course I grasp the severity of the situation Pumpernickel. I wouldn't have posted about being angry about it otherwise.

Hm it's all very well saying take away his cards etc - and fair enough in the very short term you may need to do this - but to me the bigger issue is that he won't even talk about this and uses childish tactics to block you out when you try to discuss this very important issue with him. I would be absolutely FUMING at that and it shows a huge lack of respect.

If it was me I think I would need to FORCE him to discuss this with me properly, and if he refused I would consider it pretty much a deal-breaker. I would do whatever it takes to make him sit down and understand and discuss the whole situation, with paperwork, figures etc, and come up with some firm plans to address it. Set him an ultimatum if necessary. Would it help to arrange to do this in a public place (over a meal say), or with a third person present (such as a family member or financial/debt adviser) so that he has to be an adult about it and not do the "la la la" trick?

Other tactics such as putting money into other accounts or hiding cards may be necessary until then to protect yourself financially, but I don't think they are a workable long-term solution as you would just end up in that "strict parent - naughty child" thing where he would probably just end up sneaking around finding other ways to spend money (e.g. taking out new cards) and having his fun, while you get more stressed and have to tighten your belt even more, not to mention the frustration of having to be his mother all the time!

Relationship counselling might also help with addressing the communication issue and also other things, like why he thinks it's OK for him to have expensive food and kit but for the rest of his family to be eating cheap food and wearing charity-shop clothes!

yeah, you wouldn't see me for dust, I'm afraid. Money's a red-flag issue for me: selfishness, control-freakery, bullying ("go on and on and on and on" till you handed him money you've earned, eh? what a charmer!) and endangering the future of his DCs and you.

What about your retirement? What about your DC's university? I'm not a 'leave him!' shouter, either, but in this case... how would he respond to an ultimatum about coming/going to money counselling?

Speaking as someone who has spendthrift tendencies, though not quite like OP's husband, I don't think cutting up cards or issuing ultimatums is the way to go. He needs to learn to take responsibility and have a part in taking charge of the situation otherwise I suspect it'll happen again in the future. I think you need to try and talk with him honestly to try and work out what is at the root of this behaviour (it's rarely simply about money or acquiring things). Is there a way you can talk to him which will get him to understand the seriousness of the situation and you concerns about your family without him feeling told off and backed into a corner?

I'm saying this from experience op my ex DP took credit card after credit card out to the tune of nearly 30K. He was not working so couldn't pay them, I was paying everything, he then remortgaged to pay some of these cards out, behind my back and forged my signature. He also took cards out in my name too. When he couldnt afford to repay any of these he declared himself bankrupt and I lost my house. I had to live with my parents for a while. I dumped him in the end as he ruined me, luckily we had no kids but he fucked my credit up and to this day I only have a basis bank account and mortgage had to be in DH name as I can't get credit.

The thing is, TheHouseofMirth, I've tried getting him to understand the seriousness and I'm running out of steam for the softly softly approach. I feel backed into a corner financially, I'm not prepared to tiptoe around him and worry about whether he feels told off or backed into a corner.

Have to admit that this was one of the reasons my XP is an X too. I hope your DH changes for the sake of the family OP, but imo, I haven't known many men with this level of entitlement to change.

For GOD'S sake!!

What kind of stupid, arrogant, puerile little child is this?

When you try and talk to him about the family finances, he lolls his head and starts mumbling as if he's asleep? WTF??!!

OP, your very first problem is that your life partner has absolutely no respect or sense of care towards you or your children. His behaviour is making life difficult for the whole family, but he simply doesn't care about that - your distress and upset doesn't touch him. This is what his behaviour says. His needs and wants come first, second and third. That's not a great husband or father, or even an adequate one. It's a bad situation for both you and your children and it would be such even if you were rolling in cash and weren't feeling the practical effects of his callous attitude. Do you want a partner like this? If not, think of how you can change it. One option is counselling, but the other is to walk away. The third option is to continue being sidelined, sneered at, taken for granted, and seeing your children being treated the same. No life.

Secondly, he's a complete IDIOT. A genuinely stupid man. Like a small toddler with no sense of perspective, consequences, real life. I presume he's only actually surviving in the adult world because currently YOU babysit him, practically and financially. Presumably if you weren't there he'd have gone bankrupt a long time ago. You're actually FIGHTING to stop this 'man' losing your own house out from under you. Bottom line - staying in a mutual, jointly-responsible relationship with this chancer is PUTTING YOUR CHILDRENS' FUTURES ON THE LINE. You need to take practical advice on how to cut off his control of anything which puts you all in financial danger. Do you jointly own the house? Personally I'd be making it a condition of me staying in the marriage that it goes into MY name only. I'd then be securing sole access to all finances/bills/mortgage stuff, setting up an arrangement with him that x pecentage of his wages come to ME, with the remainder his to piss away. It doesn't solve the problem of course, because as his wife you are financially tied to him. Suicide, really. There's only one solution to that. Given my point above, I'd be taking it.

I'd start talking ultimatums here, and be ready to walk. Sounds awful I know, but it's too late when your house has been repossessed. And when it has - sorry, but from the attitude you describe above, the sheer childishness of the man, I'd lay bets on him running out on you all when the shit hits the fan.

Someone mentioned earlier what your liability is in the case of married couples. I'm not entirely sure, but if he died then the people he owes money to could claim against his estate, so that would be your house or any other assets that he owns. I think if he was declared bankrupt, that may also have an effect on the spouse. Sometimes when you fill in forms, they ask if anyone in the household has been declared bankrupt.

When my FIL died, he was overdrawn and the bank took the money from the account he'd set up for my DS to pay it back, because that account hadn't been protected properly (my FIL was in control of it). These are things you need to be aware of.

If you have your own account, then don't have it in the same banking group as your joint account as I believe the bank the bank can take funds from yours to cover debts on the joint. am not 100% sure of that though, so please check. If I was you, I'd want completely separate finances and for his wage to be paid directly into my account. I'd not have any shared accounts/cards withsomeone i couldn't trust financially.

These people all become X, as soon as I realised the severity of the situation he had put me in I dumped him.

Thing is clevery I bet he doesn't think he's got a problem

I do know that if you have a credit card and a current account with X bank, the bank can, and do, take money from your current account to pay the balance of your credit card. They do not have to inform you they are doing this.
The first you discover this is when you realise you don't have any money in the account.
If you and your DH have a joint credit card, please make sure you dont have a bank account with the same bank.

we have just started a new budget, dont know if he will stick to it or not as he has a tendency to shed £20 a day on stuff at the moment. Especially food and wine. Only difference is I can take the cards away from him as he knows I hold the purse strings. Wouldnt want to ever try doing it of course....

I'm also with inigo if he won't listen to you he needs to see someone he will listen too.

I think you need to make an appoint ment a debt advisor (via a debt support charity (not a paid for con)) give then all the info , amount of debt se=pending habits etc and then meet with dh and them to discuss ways to tackle the issues.

If he won't go doesn't change you really do need to look at your relationship at a much deeper level as he is not listening to you or your concerns and is riding roughshot over your feelings and thoughts..... not a good basis for any relationship.

Everything that ShoutyHamster said.

You need three bank accounts:

1. An account in your name for all wages (yours AND his) to be paid into, CB, birthday money, children's money, savings;

1. A 'pocket money' account in your DH's name from which he can spend what he likes on whatever he wants;

1. An account in joint names that an amount of money each month is paid into from account 1. You both have access to this account on the understanding that it is used for bills, food, clothes for children, dinner monies, school trips, household expenses, etc. If it isn't something that will benefit the family, then he doesn't spend from it, also with an agreement that any 'out of the ordinary' spending from this account, over say £50 is discussed first.

Make sure your name is not connected in any way to HIS debt, his credit cards, his loans. I would also be insisting that the mortgage is solely in my name.

I'd be telling him it's this or the highway, if he wants to bankrupt himself then fine, but don't let him drag you and your children and your credit rating down with him.

You mention that he has recently bought a dog for his hunting at a cost of £700. Does he look after this dog and take responsibility for it? I bet the dog gets more respect than you do.

YANBU obviously.

I think some re-jigging of the bank accounts, as WhoAte suggests, is needed.

This would hopefully help bring home to him that if he spends over his "pocket money" amount, he is taking it out of the "bills and food" allocation. In other words it would help make clear the consequences of his spending.

purple do you discuss the meal plan with your DH? Does he agree with your choices, are they choices you make together? Is there a way in which you could compromise for example by saying that if he doesnt like X on the day then the alternative is Y (say a ready meal from the freezer).

If he does agree the meal plan but then acts impulsively and buys something different show hime the food he has wasted - you could always serve it up to him so he can actually see it and has to throw it away himself.

This might help him to see his actions in terms of real consequences.

Some people just dont get the concept of money especially if they are impetuous.

That's a good idea about showing him the wasted food. I do try to get him involved in meal planning but he won't get any involved and won't make any suggestions.

Thanks everyone for the replies; your suggestions and advice have all been taken on board

Leave him. He wont ever change, he is a selfish pig who only cares about himself.

I'd not stand for it and you should'nt too, grow some bollocks and tell him he is a selfish no good for nothing pig with responsibilities and it is about time he stood up to those responsibilities and was man.

I have a friend with one of these. She gave him an ultimatum 3 years ago - "get into debt again and I leave". So far so good, it seems.

I feel that at some point I will reach the ultimatum stage; I was thinking last night and I think that his 2 spendaholic friends are the main catalyst in his behaviour, although he won't admit it and actually won't even admit that he spends too much.

Also with the hobby he has, it tends to be something that wealthier people do, so obviously they all have disposable income for things like 2k annual shooting club memberships or brand new guns or Range Rovers, but obviously we don't have that sort of money, yet I feel DH is trying to keep up and act as though he does.

My XH was like this.
Note the X.