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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Someone I know very well not paid a penny in tax in years

154 replies

mrsmusic · 21/06/2011 22:17

Not really an AIBU... I have recently found out that BIL, who has been running two small businesses for a few years, has never registered these businesses, never had any books etc. It makes me so mad! We pay thousands in tax every year and to me it's stealing from society and making a mockery of those who do put in and contribute. If it wasn't someone so close, I'd have been on the phone to the tax people by now. I asked a close friend for their advice and it was to leave it, as what goes around comes around (e.g. he'll never be able to get a mortgage) and the tax office will catch up eventually. And I've nothing to gain from it, so I won't. WWYD? Honestly?

OP posts:
GnomeDePlume · 22/06/2011 11:50

Agree with others who say you have to register within 3 months of starting to trade. Also, many small businesses prefer to deal in cash. Bank charges are crippling for small businesses. Depositing a cheque costs, depositing cash costs, taking money out costs, breathing in the bank costs.

Cash doesnt mean it hasnt gone throught the books

The only thing DH is guilty of is bank charge avoidance.

Carminaburana · 22/06/2011 11:50

It's wrong for the following reasons:

A) he's a member of her own family - how anyone could do that to someone in their family god only knows.
B) it's not her job to be an unpaid lackey of the state.
C) MP's line their own pockets at every given opportunity so why shouldn't we.
D) stop spending 100 million quid on foreign aid and we might not be so skint.
E) I'd do it if I thought I'd get away with it - but with so many grasses around like you lot I wouldn't hold my breath.

ShirleyKnot · 22/06/2011 11:51

lol at carmina desperately trying to stoke up a bunfight

Insomnia11 · 22/06/2011 11:55

Thanks for the advice about registering with HMRC within 3 months of becoming self-employed. Hopefully I would have done that anyway Blush I kind of meant you don't have to register with Companies House. I think.

electra · 22/06/2011 11:56

This happens a lot I suspect. That's not to say it's acceptable of course.

MadAsASnakeNana · 22/06/2011 11:56

I'm self-employed, have been for many years, and religiously pay my tax, on time and to the penny I'd be inclined to shop him.

Carminaburana · 22/06/2011 11:59

I'm serious - fuck the state - they try and shaft us anyway they can -
Fucking criminals in prison have a better life than someone decent struggling on benefits -

Benefit cheats - good luck to ya!

Reality · 22/06/2011 12:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrSpoc · 22/06/2011 12:04

He doesnt have to register his businesses. How do you know he does not pay his taxes?

CogitoErgoSometimes · 22/06/2011 12:04

A) if he's a family member all it means is he's stealing the tax money his family are generously donating to the pot
B) She's not an 'unpaid lackey of the state'.... like the rest of us she's the state's employer and would be simply giving them something to do.
C) MPs have lost their jobs and been sent to prison for what they did
D) The foreign aid budget is a drop in the ocean.
E) "I'd do it" just means you've got criminal tendencies. Not a great admission

Grin
Carminaburana · 22/06/2011 12:05

No reality - stop providing criminals with laptops and god knows what else they get in prison - give that money to the deserving poor - it's all about priority.

Carminaburana · 22/06/2011 12:09

How many tax loop-holes are there so the super rich can keep even more of their millions? And you're worried about someone screwing the government for a few hundred quid?

clemetteattlee · 22/06/2011 12:23

If that few hundred quid means my children have access to the local library every day then it does matter.
I am happy for his thousands of unpaid tax to be collected and spent straight on foreign aid.
I wouldn't report him, but would make up some story about the tax man coming around asking questions to try and shame/scare him into doing it himself.

Nowtspecial · 22/06/2011 12:24

Hope he doesn't do any work where he may be likely to cause injury or damage to himself or other people or their property etc, as I bet he doesn't have any personal liability insurance either.

hiddenhome · 22/06/2011 12:29

It's theft.

My ExP is a tax dodger and is getting away with not paying any child support because of it Sad

mdowdall · 22/06/2011 12:29

Why can't people mind their own business? Seriously, why are people so bothered? As this sanctimonious stuff they are spouting is exactly that - the truth is, they are jelous.
Btw - CogitoErgoSometimes saying MPs lost their jobs and got sent to jail. Yeh, hardly any of them. Considering the scale and seriousness of what was going on - and for years - I'd say they got away with murder.

VanillaRooibos · 22/06/2011 12:29

In the end OP you will have to look in your heart and do what you think is the right thing. As what will happen, as often happens with these threads is that everyone will start arguing and slagging each other off.
I think maybe think about your motivations; would you report it because you feel resentful and annoyed that you are paying tax and he is not, or is it because you truly feel a crime is being committed against society and it is your duty as a citizen to report it?
Anyway you can speak to him directly about it if you feel angry about it.

WowOoo · 22/06/2011 12:41

I am not jealous of those who don't pay tax. But it pisses me off.

I myself pay it as I know it's the right thing to do and I really don't want something like that hanging over my head.

Fact is people do make anonymous calls and they do get caught out. I know of a few.

northerngirl41 · 22/06/2011 12:59

HMRC are about to really start cracking down on small businesses avoiding tax. And rightly so. He'll get his just desserts.

You can't run a business (even a cash business like a taxi or a corner shop) without leaving some trace. You'll still need some form of bank account, they know roughly how much each business should be making and can benchmark your business against that.

I don't understand people who fiddle their tax, it really isn't that onerous to keep good records and frankly the tax allowances are pretty generous when you factor in all the things that you can claim for and don't have to pay for being self-employed. If you earned the money, you should be paying tax on it!

mollymole · 22/06/2011 13:05

mrspoc
what are you talking about - he does not have to register a business
if you become self employed you have to INFORM HMRC within 3 months of starting - you do not have to incorporate unless you are a Ltd company - is it this about the Limited Company you are talking
suspect there are a number of 'wind ups' on here who are saying theft (tax evasion, benefit fraud) is ok - and if they really believe this then i would be quite willing to 'shop' them to DSS/HMRC in the hope that they could get them on something

emmanana · 22/06/2011 13:12

If he ever finds his business failing, then maybe you could go into partnership with him. You can drive him round and wait for him whilst he takes advantage of people, elderly, families, who have left a window open, and give him the thumbs up as he nicks anything that takes his fancy.

He is committing a crime, and anyone who stands by and says nothing is just as guilty. Because there isn't an individual named in the theft, doesn't make it any less of a crime. If you inform the authorities then no, it would not make any difference to the national economy, but multiply by 1000's what is happening with your BIL up and down the country and you're talking significant amounts.

If you or your family were a victim of crime, if someone burgled your house, or assaulted you and the judge let them walk away scot free because to punish them may disrupt family life, what would you say?

If you saw an old lady mugged, would your attitude be 'I've nothing to gain from reporting it'?

If your DC pinched a computer game from a shop, would you just let lie?

The only person you have to justify your actions to is yourself. Please ask yourself the questions above, and you alone will know what to do.

LolaRennt · 22/06/2011 13:16

does this man have children from a previous marriage? As I know some guys do this to get out of paying child support too.

Shop him

ilovesooty · 22/06/2011 13:16

I think whether the fraudster is a member of one's family is irrelevant. I'd shop them just the same.

I'm self employed as well as working full time. I pay tax properly and I don't see why others should get away with theft.

I take it those in the mind your own business brigade wouldn't expect anyone to report the matter if thieves were seen breaking into their house or car?

tyler80 · 22/06/2011 13:22

To those who say they wouldn't shop because it's family. How serious does a crime have to be before you would?

Mugging
Drink Driving
Theft
Rape
Murder?

ashamedandconfused · 22/06/2011 13:33

I cannot believe how many of you think this is OK, that he should be allowed to get away with this! How sad a reflection on our society that is - do nothing! The idea that honest law abiding citizens are just curtain twitching "grasses" and not doing their duty! Do you not realise how many ££££ it costs US ALL, in the taxman chasing up these scumbags. They are laughing at us all, thinking they are getting away with it. Its millions altogether, that tax dodgers are not putting into the communal coffers. Think of the people facing education or NHS cuts in your area! Think what that money could do!!

I'd shop him family or not, he has no one to blame for the fall out but his own greedy arrogant self.

(PS - on a lighter note - all of this "but he's fam-lee" stuff makes me think of Grant and Phil Mitchell - all that loyalty to the family crap, then sleeping with each others OHs and trying to kill each other on a regular basis!!)