to wonder why lesbians go for women that look like men?

[carriedababi]

surely if you fancy women you'd want to go out with a woman that looked like \ woman not a man.
nothing against gay/lesbians at all.

but this seems a bit strange to me

I am currently reading As Good as God, As Clever as the Devil Highly recommended by the way! That would challenge anyone's preconceptions about lesbians I think.

facetiously I just want to say in response to the OP's question 'because they fancy them?'. There's a key recognition thing, and an attraction to strength and capability. I've never been into super-butch women, but wouldn't be on the femme end of the spectrum either. I love lesbians and I think the key point is that just like heterosexuality, it is not a single identity. Equally, not all parts of an identity have to be neatly lined up; it is perfectly possible to be big butch lesbian with distinctly feminine qualities - in bed and out of it.

is this a joke thread?

otherwise can we send the question back to the 50's where it belongs

Judy -" act like men"! What does that mean?

If you mean some lesbians go for women who are confident, don't spend ages shopping for new clothes, or talking about hair/make up, then yes that is true. But many women of whatever sexuality don't act like the stereotype of a girly woman.

Carmina - I have never come across a lesbian who refers to herself as a man, unless there are gender identity issues there. For example, chastity, Cher's daughter came out as a lesbian and much later publically announced she was transgendered and would have a sex change operation.

Perry - personally I would rather people ask questions like this. I don't think the OP is at all bigoted, she just doesn't understand something she observes.

Lesley33 - sure, she says it kinda as a joke but she wishes she'd been born a man. She's very comfortable with her 'look' and has never looked any different , I've seen photos of her at 16 and she hasn't really changed. ( I've just uploaded her photo from my phone - she's on my profile )

she ain't bothered what she looks like - ha ha

Carmina - There are some women in the lesbian community who are transgendered. I think your friend wishing she was a man is a more complicated issue than, just, as some might see her, being a lesbian who dresses like a man.

I have never fancied a woman who "acts like or looks like" a man, because oddly, as a lesbian I am attracted to women. Be they butch, femme, somewhere in the middle. Its the fact that they are women and have traits I find attractive.

I detest the phrase "oh you must be the man then" directed at any butch women.
Is a SAHD the woman then or do all working mothers want to be men? its sterotyoing and its rude.

Like any other women, lesbians all have types. Sure we can all fall under a label if that makes it easier for folk to digest, but labels often cause sterotyping which leads to this sort of discussion.

Butch women do not "want" to be men! they want to dress how they feel they want to. End of!

Of course its a silly question that stems from ignorance.

I have asked my sister this question and several of her girlfriends and so far not be shot at or punched.
I have, in the past, assumed that the "butch look" was a bit of a political statement.
But I have been educated very well and now just dont care. If someone fancies someone then who cares. Be happy with the person you love.

Of course its a silly question that stems from ignorance.

If it stems from genuine ignorance - ie not knowing - why is it a silly question?

Exactly - all questions stem from ignorance - if we never asked or questioned anything we'd stagnate -

but surely a grown up has the brain capacity to realise that a gay woman doesn't want to be a man? that a grown woman can dress as she likes? and just because she doesn't fit the "norm", it doesn't mean she is a man wannabe. Or that a lesbian who fancies a butch doesn't want to be with a man?

there is genuine ignorance and there is sheer blindsight. The OP clearly just hasn't thought about it. That is not genuine ignorance. My 7 yr old neice has asked these sorts of questions and I expect it from that age group. An adult can comprehend so much more, or so I thought. Maybe I am sterotyping now, but it certainly strikes me as a silly question from an adult. but this is the AIBU section, I have read worse

I don't really get this thread at all. Most lesbians (in my experience) are not butch, but are not as stereotypically feminine as the average straight woman.

I do think that on average lesbians are less likely to have fake nails/push up bra/complicated and time consuming hairstyle/ heels that change the shape of the leg/face full of make up.

I assume that is because on average lesbians want to go out with women who actually look like women, while straight men want to go out with an entity that does not exist in nature.

I think I've probably posted enough on this thread, and anybody who really does want to understand can get all the information they want on here . But one last thing worth saying:

Butch identity is an expression of lesbian sexuality, yes, but also of lesbian IDENTITY and has to be understood in its historical context. IN the UK and the US, it really took off in the middle of the last century within the burgeoning lesbian scene in big cities. It is, incidentally, most strongly associated with working class lesbian culture (there have always been posh lesbos who dressed masculine - Radclyffe Hall et al - but it took off in working class dyke bars). It was a uniform of resistance against the very brutal oppression that out lesbians faced - kind of like how black kids took up dreads and Rasta colours in the 70s, even if they weren't religious.

So, these days, there are a number of reasons why a woman might like to dress butch:

• because it feels more comfortable to her than wearing heels and frocks, and she's comfortable with paying the price (and women who refuse to do the conventionally attractive thing really do pay a price)
• because it feels like an expression of her authentic sexuality
• because she is declaring belonging and loyalty to the tribe
• because she lives in a relatively closed lesbian community (in a small town, for example) and feels under some implicit pressure to conform to the norm

As for why other women would fancy those women, it could be:

• because she happens to fancy the woman inside the clothes, whatever the clothes are
• because she honours butches because of their historical role as the gladiatorial guard of the lesbian army
• because it feels like an expression of her authentic sexuality
• because they are hot

And one last thing: women who refuse to 'look like women' in our society are targets of horror and derision. Remember the horror when Julia Roberts didn't shave under her arms? Remember that, a generation or so ago, white people in the main genuinely thought black women were all ugly? I reckon a woman doesn't have to be very butch before she is seen as ugly, masculine, blokeish. For the record, I've been with a fair few butches in my youth (I lived near an army base ); some of them quite stonkingly butch, and not one of them ever seemed to me ugly or like a man.

Apologies for the overlong post.

My name is Hester and my specialist subject is the whys and wherefores of butch.

Thanks Hester... that was an excellent post.

just on a pragmatic note generally men's clothes are better made and cheaper than women's clothes, and also have good size, properly stitched pockets.

Hester I know all too well what you mean about paying the price; the women who get on best in my profession are usually blonde, with long hair, speak nicely, and clever, but not in any challenging way (e.g. they don't make men feel insecure). The women who ARE the best in my profession are generally spiky and sarky and not overly fixated on what they look like (although not scruff-bags like me - the fact that I am a lesbian is a side-issue :o) and frequently challenge and push at boundaries...but that's a whole other thread, and I've only just finished working for the day.

drivingmisscrazy - I'm blonde, with long hair, speak nicely, and am a little bit clever.... but I like to think of myself as a bit of a fifth columnist

Seriously, though, your point is well made. Any list of female high achievers usually has a disproportionate number of lesbians, childless women, and women who have in some way not fitted into the conventional feminine script.

hester touché...it's interesting, isn't it? and not a little alarming when raising daughters - how do you help them negotiate these treacherous waters, I wonder? (DD 2.5 said, not unhappily, and she will wear them at least, 'those are boys' pyjamas', or seeing a sleeping baby under a pink blanket, 'she's asleep, that tiny baby )