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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder theoretically if...

129 replies

Cain · 18/06/2011 22:28

all the unemployed private sector workers with relevant skills swapped places with the dissatisfied public sector workers, could it avert the economic crisis the strikes will cause... ?

AIBU?

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 18/06/2011 23:53

are there adequate numbers of Dr,SW, OT,SALT, teachers etc in private sector to enact this wee whim.is industry really heaving with those staff?

your premise is flawed - lots of public sector is skilled and specialist work,not just any ole job that one slips into.

But i also think youre being purposefully obtuse and provocative

CBear6 · 18/06/2011 23:54

Exactly Devil.

It shouldn't be about "them" vs "us" or "have" vs "have not". Bringing everyone down to the lowest level just makes everyone worse off. Redundancies, pay cuts, reduction of T&Cs, etc in any employment sector impact on the economy as a whole because it has a knock-on effect. Pay me less and I'll spend less at the shops, I'll cut back on luxury items like Sky or take-aways or trips to the local pub, cut my hours and I don't need to use the car as much to commute so I'll buy less petrol or I'll use the bus less because I'm not commuting as much. Then multiply that reduced consumer spending by thousands or hundreds of thousands. Then factor in the benefits unemployed workers will need to claim or the top-ups workers on reduced incomes will need to claim to sustain them (e.g., tax credits, etc). How does that aid the economy?

We should all be standing up and fighting to raise standards to those of the highest level, rather than dragging then down to the lowest. Public sector workers didn't cause the financial problems, they're victims of it just like everyone else. When times were good and business was booming, they got nothing extra yet when times are bad they're demonised as leeches sucking funds from honest taxpayers and doing very little to earn their keep.

Our strikes and contractual disputes get a lot of press because our unions are some of the few unions still actively fighting these issues. We've already made cut backs and savings, I could go into it but wouldn't want to be seen as "bleating" however large parts of the public sector are struggling to deliver services with barely any resources, reduced staff numbers, and a lack of equipment. The same people who bemoan us using up valuable taxpayer funds and cry for cut backs are then the same people who complain about waiting lists, call queues, and processing delays.

I still say YABU, there is more to the public sector than you realise or give credit for.

BurningBridges · 18/06/2011 23:54

I'm off to bed Cain. Try to play nicely. Wink

Cain · 19/06/2011 00:01

Wanker - increased as state retirement age has already been?

SM - You have me pegged of course, granted but still I have not read an adequate post to contradict my op, its all about 'you must be a daily mail reader' shite.

I need something more substantive than bleating and derision to change my opinion here.

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 19/06/2011 00:08

whats your contention here?that public sector workers are replaceable and if not up to market standards then draft in someone else?

how did you arrive at that then?
undoubtedly some workers are inept and could do with a shake and some cpd. but hey there a numerous of them in finances and private sector too who dumped the country in the keech. so lets start with those inept greedy bastards shall we?

aye the ones that caused financial meltdown,start there.make them be a phlembotomist or out of hours staff

swanker · 19/06/2011 00:09

If the public sector is so attractive, I do not understand why all these people who are currently unemployed from private sector jobs did not originally seek employment in the public sector. What was stopping them from applying when the public sector was recruiting?

swanker · 19/06/2011 00:09

"Remember when teachers and nurses crashed the stock market, wiped out banks, took billions in bonuses and paid no tax?No, me neither. " - Richard Murphy, accountant, economist, and tax expert.

swanker · 19/06/2011 00:11

DO you honestly think that any strikes by public sector worker will cause economic crisis? Confused Really?

Cain · 19/06/2011 00:16

scottishmummySat 18-Jun-11 23:53:08

are there adequate numbers of Dr,SW, OT,SALT, teachers etc in private sector to enact this wee whim.is industry really heaving with those staff?

your premise is flawed - lots of public sector is skilled and specialist work,not just any ole job that one slips into.

Which is why I stated 'with relevant skills'.
I am a mother of a child with SEN and can say with absolute confidence that where his teachers have a PGCE I have the PHD in teaching.
They really do NEED my help to get the most out of him and left to his teachers he would still be unable to read as is the case of another child in his class.
Relevant skills as mentioned in my OP are not just the traditional qualifications.

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 19/06/2011 00:20

yes thats subjective,doesnt equate to enough private sector staff to turn hand to public sector jobs.if you have the skills for teaching,why arent you doing so?

Cain · 19/06/2011 00:25

Swanker, you don't really understand our economy at the moment do you?

Under previous circumstances a public sector strike would have impact but under the current climate, inflation is out of proportion, taxes are hitting households in real time and the impact of a strike is going to be most felt by your average Joe - NOT the Government. Barking up the wrong tree is one way to describe it, totally out of touch with the current economic climate is another.
Striking is not going to make you popular with the electorate and if you think that is irrelevant, you and your unions need a wake up call.

OP posts:
Cain · 19/06/2011 00:29

scottishmummySun 19-Jun-11 00:20:48

yes thats subjective,doesnt equate to enough private sector staff to turn hand to public sector jobs.if you have the skills for teaching,why arent you doing so?

I don't have the time to get the qualification, as a single mother I need the income now not in a year's time and why the fuck should I? That is irrelevant to this thread.

OP posts:
noncuro · 19/06/2011 00:29

YABU.
It won't avert the economic crisis as...

a) not everyone unemployed has the relevant skills (not disputing some do, but I find it hard to believe that the entire public sector workforce can be replaced from the unemployed. Simple maths really)

b) even if they could be replaced from the unemployed, we'd still have millions of unemployed to look after

c) as other posters have eloquently said, this isn't a public/private sector war. It's about a small elite treating all of us like rubbish. If private sector workers accepted public sector wages without the benefit of pensions then there would be social unrest and...

d) if those private sector people didn't have adequate wages AND pensions, then we just postpone the issue to when those ex-private sector workers reach retirement, having not been able to save enough, we end up having to give many more people than anticipated state pension benefits. It's a matter of when you give them the money, not if.

I might have agreed with you until this year, when I started studying employment law. It really opened my eyes to how badly workers are treated.

scottishmummy · 19/06/2011 00:31

plenty non-traditional "qualifications" quacks you can go see.try homeopathy
meanwhile,most folk prefer the good ole regulated traditional qualifications. but hey nowt stopping you setting yourself up as something educational so long as you dont allude to teaching qualification and gtc. go set self up as educational advisor in sen with PhD in told you so.skooshy.shouldnt be any problemo for you.at all.wee bit private practice,show how it should be done

swanker · 19/06/2011 00:32

Where did I say I work in the public sector?
I am asking why you think a strike by public sector workers will cause economic crisis- as you stated in your OP?

And I repeat- if the public sector is so attractive, then surely people wanting to work there already would- unemployed or not.

Cain · 19/06/2011 00:36

swankerSun 19-Jun-11 00:09:59

"Remember when teachers and nurses crashed the stock market, wiped out banks, took billions in bonuses and paid no tax?No, me neither. " - Richard Murphy, accountant, economist, and tax expert.

Remember when we were last teetering on economic depression? Me neither but that isn't to say it won't happen and yes the blame for the recession sits squarely with the banks but what happens going forward is totally in our hands. Don't make it any worse than it is already going to be.

OP posts:
swanker · 19/06/2011 00:37

"taxes are hitting households in real time"- what the hell does this mean?

Tax is paid twice a year, based on the previous tax-year's income, unless you are PAYE in which case tax is exactly the same as it always has been.

scottishmummy · 19/06/2011 00:38

are you just going to cut & paste all night
if you're so skilled in education,go forth and do so.given your premise is,that most

scottishmummy · 19/06/2011 00:40

too fast...
your premise is most private sector could do public sector job.so why dont you do it. go forth,set up as educational advisor, write reports, support parents,share your PhD level knowledge

what are you waiting for?

Cain · 19/06/2011 00:41

scottishmummySun 19-Jun-11 00:31:32

plenty non-traditional "qualifications" quacks you can go see.try homeopathy
meanwhile,most folk prefer the good ole regulated traditional qualifications. but hey nowt stopping you setting yourself up as something educational so long as you dont allude to teaching qualification and gtc. go set self up as educational advisor in sen with PhD in told you so.skooshy.shouldnt be any problemo for you.at all.wee bit private practice,show how it should be done

I hate to say it SM but on this occasion (unusually for you) you are way off the mark. I know what I am talking about with DS and have developed skills that his teachers clearly lack despite their qualifications but that is not the subject of this thread...

OP posts:
swanker · 19/06/2011 00:43

Cain- are you unemployed?

WhereYouLeftIt · 19/06/2011 00:44

Cain, I'm struggling here to follow you. Your OP was a bit woolly, But you seemed to me to be suggesting that public sector workers should never strike, and that you personally think the way to handle 'dissent in the ranks' would be dismissal and replacement with a forelock tugging unemployed person, presumably on inferior pay and conditions. And you regard an economic crisis as inevitable should public sector workers strike. Is that what you were saying?

Cain · 19/06/2011 00:45

scottishmummySun 19-Jun-11 00:40:43

I cut and paste as i am not the fastest typer, so people know who I am responding to.

AT NO POINT did I say that most private sector could do public sector jobs - I CLEARLY stated 'with relevant skills'.

You are not responding appropriately SM.

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 19/06/2011 00:46

youre touchy happy to belittle over public sector skills
all i could do that much better...
but when its put to you- go on then
you get all no dont go there.not up for discussion

swanker · 19/06/2011 00:50

You haven't actually answered any of my relevant questions.

Also- when you say striking will not make public sector workers popular with the electorate- why exactly should they care?- they are not up for election.

FWIW- I don't feel there is any public support for strikes. I also know what is going on in public organisations in my area at the moment, and workers there are not wanting to strike either. They are too busy trying to keep their jobs, and trying to make sense of the changes that are happening to their T&C at present, before you get to any changes to pensions.