Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder theoretically if...

129 replies

Cain · 18/06/2011 22:28

all the unemployed private sector workers with relevant skills swapped places with the dissatisfied public sector workers, could it avert the economic crisis the strikes will cause... ?

AIBU?

OP posts:
OooohShiny · 18/06/2011 23:10

entitlement? you mean entitlement not to have our pay frozen indefinitely, changes made to our terms and conditions, changes to redundancy terms and slashing our pensions?

I actually really enjoy my job, I work in an interesting field, I work around 45 hours a week, get half an hour for lunch and work bloody hard for just over 20k, other than my pension I don't get any other benefits - yes, I feel entitled to a fair wage and fair terms

My husband works less hours than me doing a similar job in private sector, he earns about 8k more than me, a pay rise this year and a bonus, gets pension contributions, company car, subsidised canteen, free Christmas dinner........

I think most public sector workers would be happy with just not fucking about with our pensions

OooohShiny · 18/06/2011 23:12

apologies for bleating Hmm

referring back to your original OP.....YABU and no

BelleDameSansMerci · 18/06/2011 23:12

Cain, I'm as at risk of redundancy as anyone else is - more so than many I work with. Not sure what point you were making with that comment.

toomanyopinions · 18/06/2011 23:16

Hahaha! YABU and NO! Like to find anyone in the private sector as highly educated, trained and as at high a risk of being sued as a Sonographer for as shitty a wage (before all the lovely proposed cuts!) Hahaha-haha!!

CBear6 · 18/06/2011 23:19

YY Shiny.

Couldn't care less about expense accounts, staff lunches, canteens, discounted gym membership, etc - no one in the public sector expects those things - but would like my pension left alone. I, like many others, signed a contract stating certain terms and conditions, that contract was not fixed term or temporary but for the whole of my career and used terms stating it was for the whole of my career. To renegotiate that contract without doing any actual negotiating is going to put staff on the defensive, and rightly so. Why would anyone, public or private sector, allow their terms and conditions to be eroded without even a murmur of dissent?

Original poster
Cain · 18/06/2011 23:22

Hmm still not convinced "YABU and no" tells me nothing.
I have no reason yet to think that public sector strikes are justified.

Give me a good substantiated argument and I will consider it.

I still think that the VAST majority of unemployed would be happy to accept public sector jobs even with the compromised benefits of state retirement age and reduced pension benefits.

I have been told by friends in the public sector (recruitment) that my biggest challenge would be to comply with the reduced pace of work that would be expected of me by colleagues.

OP posts:
Original poster
Cain · 18/06/2011 23:24

Cbear6 contracts of employment are subject to change - the negotiation is that you can accept the change or find other employment. I have been there too.

OP posts:
sunshineandbooks · 18/06/2011 23:26

I think it's a mistake to assume that people in the public sector are moaning about having 'perks' taken away. I work in the private sector and have a lot less advantages than the numerous people I know who work in the public sector, but that's just me. It's swings and roundabouts and there will be people better off and people worse off. It's not comparing like with like and it's a mistake to do so. Surely we want to be improving things for everyone, not dragging everyone down to the lowest level?

Original poster
Cain · 18/06/2011 23:27

toomanyopinionsSat 18-Jun-11 23:16:24

Hahaha! YABU and NO! Like to find anyone in the private sector as highly educated, trained and as at high a risk of being sued as a Sonographer for as shitty a wage (before all the lovely proposed cuts!) Hahaha-haha!!

Does sonograpy not exist outside the NHS? Really?

OP posts:
BurningBridges · 18/06/2011 23:30

I keep seeing these threads where you have an OP sneering at public sector workers, which is a huge cohort encompassing everyone from hospital cleaners to the head of the Met Police, and how well paid they are/great benefits/no fear of redundancy/monkey could do that just etc., where the OP clearly has a very slim no grasp of fiscal policy, politics, employment and pension law etc whatsoever.

Then people who know what they are talking about come on and give comprehensive and informed posts about the reality of being a public sector worker, and then the OP comes back with a rapier-like response along the lines of yeah but no but yeah they've all got these great benefits, no I mean benefit, ok one benefit that is so great that no one else gets it, everyone gets upset and the OP continues the sneering regardless, suspecting everyone else is getting something they are not. Cain: Get back to the Daily Mail, your people love you there.

Original poster
Cain · 18/06/2011 23:30

sunshineandbooksSat 18-Jun-11 23:26:50

I think it's a mistake to assume that people in the public sector are moaning about having 'perks' taken away. I work in the private sector and have a lot less advantages than the numerous people I know who work in the public sector, but that's just me. It's swings and roundabouts and there will be people better off and people worse off. It's not comparing like with like and it's a mistake to do so. Surely we want to be improving things for everyone, not dragging everyone down to the lowest level?

And yet the country is not in a phase of 'improvement', we can't afford it - we are making cuts left, right and centre. Improvement is not the priority atm. I personally would like to see children in poverty made a priority for improvement but I didn't vote tory, under them its not going to happen.

OP posts:
OooohShiny · 18/06/2011 23:31

I still think that the VAST majority of unemployed would be happy to accept public sector jobs

yes, that is probably correct, I know if I was unemployed I'd take any job.

However, you have no guarantee that you're actually going to get anyone with the correct skills. I'm assuming you're talking about all public sector workers in this argument? Because where are you going to find trained firefighters, police, teachers and the vast array of qualifications you'd need to cover the NHS??? Yes, indeed there may be people who have the necessary skills to work in central government, but my job is very specialised, as are hundreds of others in government - who is going to train the people who come in off the streets to replace us? Are government Ministers going to put up with folk saying "sorry mate, I don't know anything about that so can't brief you"

so once again, YABU and no

Original poster
Cain · 18/06/2011 23:32

BurningBridgesSat 18-Jun-11 23:30:12

I keep seeing these threads where you have an OP sneering at public sector workers, which is a huge cohort encompassing everyone from hospital cleaners to the head of the Met Police, and how well paid they are/great benefits/no fear of redundancy/monkey could do that just etc., where the OP clearly has a very slim no grasp of fiscal policy, politics, employment and pension law etc whatsoever.

Then people who know what they are talking about come on and give comprehensive and informed posts about the reality of being a public sector worker, and then the OP comes back with a rapier-like response along the lines of yeah but no but yeah they've all got these great benefits, no I mean benefit, ok one benefit that is so great that no one else gets it, everyone gets upset and the OP continues the sneering regardless, suspecting everyone else is getting something they are not. Cain: Get back to the Daily Mail, your people love you there.

Very feeble minded post, carry on burning bridges.

OP posts:
BurningBridges · 18/06/2011 23:33

There rests the case for the prosecution! Grin

Original poster
Cain · 18/06/2011 23:34

OooohShinySat 18-Jun-11 23:31:28

I still think that the VAST majority of unemployed would be happy to accept public sector jobs

yes, that is probably correct, I know if I was unemployed I'd take any job.

However, you have no guarantee that you're actually going to get anyone with the correct skills. I'm assuming you're talking about all public sector workers in this argument? Because where are you going to find trained firefighters, police, teachers and the vast array of qualifications you'd need to cover the NHS??? Yes, indeed there may be people who have the necessary skills to work in central government, but my job is very specialised, as are hundreds of others in government - who is going to train the people who come in off the streets to replace us? Are government Ministers going to put up with folk saying "sorry mate, I don't know anything about that so can't brief you"

so once again, YABU and no

I personally think that is a very elitist opinion of the public sector - all of the skills you mention are ones that are available within the private sector.

OP posts:
OooohShiny · 18/06/2011 23:37

I didn't say those skills weren't available - I'm asking you where is the guarantee that those skills are in the unemployed sector??

as you said yourself earlier:

Give me a good substantiated argument and I will consider it.

Devilforasideboard · 18/06/2011 23:37

You do realise that you getting angry at public sector workers and their perceived benefits is exactly what the government is hoping you'll do? Instead of that why not question why ALL our pensions and 'benefits' are gradually being eroded? In what way would it make it better for you if everybody is dragged down to the same level? Blaming public sector workers for standing up and complaining about downright discriminatory and illegal behaviour just because workers in the private sector didn't isn't going to get anybody anywhere.

Original poster
Cain · 18/06/2011 23:37

BurningBridgesSat 18-Jun-11 23:33:35

There rests the case for the prosecution!

As I told Aitch who also throws about the very feeble Daily Mail argument when disagreed with 'I'm a Guardian reader'. The only experience I have of DM is from Mumsnet, ironically.

OP posts:
BurningBridges · 18/06/2011 23:39

I think you've definitely missed your vocation Cain.

swanker · 18/06/2011 23:40

Could you please quantify "a reasonable salary and quite reasonable benefits, by private sector standards..."?

BurningBridges · 18/06/2011 23:41

This should be good ....

Original poster
Cain · 18/06/2011 23:41

DevilforasideboardSat 18-Jun-11 23:37:36

You do realise that you getting angry at public sector workers and their perceived benefits is exactly what the government is hoping you'll do? Instead of that why not question why ALL our pensions and 'benefits' are gradually being eroded? In what way would it make it better for you if everybody is dragged down to the same level? Blaming public sector workers for standing up and complaining about downright discriminatory and illegal behaviour just because workers in the private sector didn't isn't going to get anybody anywhere.

Its not 'discriminatory and illegal behaviour' though is it? Its necessary for the future of Great Britain which, if drastic measures are not undertaken could very quickly be following in the footsteps of the PIGs (portugal, Ireland and Greece) in begging for a bailout from Europe. 'great' britain? not really.

OP posts:
Original poster
Cain · 18/06/2011 23:47

swankerSat 18-Jun-11 23:40:20

Could you please quantify "a reasonable salary and quite reasonable benefits, by private sector standards..."?

This should be good...
Now that is feeble!

I should have thought that would be quite obvious for anyone with an ounce of intelligence...something in the realms of the national average which doesn't automatically offer pension contributions and already has an increased retirement age? Does that help you quantify?

OP posts:
Original poster
Cain · 18/06/2011 23:49

All very busy attacking my comments in the desperate hope that you won't have to answer my OP because you can't or you would have.

Don't accuse me of being feeble in my arguments in an attempt to avoid the actual question posed which has yet to be answered to my satisfaction.

OP posts:
swanker · 18/06/2011 23:51

I'm sorry- could you explain what you mean by 'already has an increased retirement age'? Increased from what to what?

Swipe left for the next trending thread