To wonder how Socialism would work in the UK?

[smashinghairday]

I read posters talk about Socialism and wonder how people would like to see it operate in the UK today?

Is it desirable or achievable?

Perhaps. I live in Scotland and have never really found that to be true. Equally I have known friends who went to private schools, from wealthy families, and didn't need up with 'decent' (whatever that means) jobs....

before the russain revolution socialism and communism meant almost the same thing, only communisim required a commune to work. only in recent years has socialism ment 'wet slightly less left communism'. they have distinct different meanings now , but only beacuse languaege evolves they began life as twins

This is a problem with discussions like this, people tie themselves in knots worrying about the meaning of terms like "decent jobs" rather than discussing the issues. Let's take "decent" to mean "paying over £50k a year". Most such jobs are taken by people from middle/upper class families.

USSR - socialism, China - Socialism, Korea, Vietnam - all socialist governments. Would you want to live there? After nigh on 90 years of 'socialism', Russia revolted and reverted to capitalism.

If you were to take away the veneers of civilisation, there is a pecking order to any animal life (humans included), Those who want to/can get on will get on. Those who don't/can't won't.

There are many things that are inherant in our animal nature that go against the grains of a civilised and moral society. One would hope we would care for the vunerable - but in reality we don't, we have little concept of extended family anymore - we may not be living in caves and leaving our elderly and infirm to die out on the plains, we just let them starve to death and be abused in nursing homes under the pretext of 'social care'. Evocative comment? Of course.

Nature dictates we strive to do our best for the next generation. As pointed out, we are still a society that looks to the class system; replace that with a ranking order in the animal kingdom and it works very well. The strongest monkey in the troop gets to lead. It's not all male dominated - the cleverest female meercat also gets to lead.

Money doesnt indicate class, it never has. Money cannot buy class (or social heirarchy) you can only actually use your money to buy education and faux class traits for your children.

Most such jobs are taken by people from middle/upper class families.

You mean 'educated' ?

I find the problem with discussions like this is that people get annoyed when others offer a different point of view or ask for definitions....

Coming from the US the UK is pretty Socialist in comparison. The whole welfare state and NHS are totally socialist. Nobody goes hungry or homeless in this country unless they really work at it. The US is brutal. It has the largest homeless problem in the industrialised world. I think the UK strikes a pretty good balance between capitalism and socialism.

You can interpret it how you like, but ensuring a decent education for your children is something that money enables you to do.

And without giving a full reply to your other points, a lot of people will always want to avoid living under socialism for two reasons. 1) The press is controlled by the wealthy, who of course promote policies in their favour. The masses subconsciously fall into line. 2) People generally think they are better than the next person, and just because they've heard about some multi-millionaire, their naturally greedy human instincts allow them to believe they'll be the next one. Of course 99.99% of the time, they won't be.

No K999, I'd rather people did have a different point of view, no point debating with people you fully agree with! But yes, being asked to define something that really doesn't need defining is annoying.

Surely you must see that defining anything as 'decent' is subjective. Decent to one person may be entirely different to another.....

EXACTLY! That's what makes it annoying..and why discussions can end up going around in circles with people discussing their views of what constitutes a "decent" job for example rather than discussing the wider points. Isn't that the point I originally made?

I must have misinterpreted you....in my defence I have had several two glasses of wine and only had 5 hours sleep last night....

OK..no problem lol

just to be contentious - I find people are incapable of 'debate' on here - far too many radicals for my liking - but then - they were put on this earth to amuse when serious forums are quiet. I've never seen so may hissy*fitters all in one place!

moonferret Decent job? All jobs are decent. All serve a purpose. No legally earned money is dirty money. You can't have a world of brain surgeons because you need someone to empty the trash - an equally valid and worthwhile job - if unsung.

Let's substitute "well paid" for "decent" then. Since that's what most seem to want...

Define "well paid" ....

Over 50k???

Correct...

Well paid? I think if you have an urge to succeed, a desire, you will do (reasonably) well in life. Some people don't have that motivation.

50K London is far less than someone earning 50K in the North East. I hate to bring something with a standard salary scale - but using public sector - X job that gets paid Y amount - will be terribly poor in the south yet a 'good' salary up country.

How would socialism work in the UK?

Well, full on socialism - a centrally planned economy - would be a total fucking disaster. Obviously.

A bit of socialism - to cater for public needs and avoid natural monopolies - that does work. It's what we have. Socialist enterprises are always massively inefficient, but for some things its just the least bad option. I mean, imagine if some bunch of twats privatised a natural monopoly like the railways, for example?

Safety, are you on the right thread?

Firstly, as people have pointed out, there are a variety of socialisms.

I would consider myself an old school Labour leftie type of socialist, rather then a Socialist Workers Party type. I've liked StuckInTheMiddle's contributions on this thread, they match my own thinking.

As a religious type, I like the thought of helping folks out and no one being in poverty etc. I think many of the major religions have a socalist bent and I would go so far as to say that peoples' better selves are socialist at heart - wanting a good society, helping and looking after each other, especially the weaker members of society.

Is socialism workable in the UK? - no it isn't. Tony Blair re-wrote the Labour party constitution ( clause 4 ) to make sure of that.
You could join the Socialist Labour party and support Arthur Scargil- but with less than 6000 members they won't be doing much damage politically.

For those looking down their noses at cleaners, without them bloody brain surgeons wouldn't be able to do their job.

Every job is important. As for socialism working, i think while people believe the government and media, no it wouldn't.

The UK isn't ready for socialism yet. Too many baby boomets benefitting for it to happen yet, but i believe it will.