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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to ask if anyone has or would send their child to an atheist camp?

233 replies

Ihavewelliesbuttheyrenotgreen · 18/06/2011 17:35

I am a Christian and have attended/volunteered on lots of Christian summner camps over the years. Mumsnet has opened my eyes a bit more to atheism and the choices that people face about religion etc when bringing up kids. Would anyone send their kids on one of these atheist camps and what would be your reasons?

OP posts:
GrimmaTheNome · 19/06/2011 11:09

Anyway, to return to the OP, Yes. To Camp Quest, that is - I would never send DD to an 'atheist camp' any more than I would to a 'christian camp' or a 'buddhist camp' - entertaining as the latter non-existent concept is, and DH is part humanist, part Buddhist... (Curious to know whether she would send her child to a christian camp and why...)

Why?

Well.... since you asked....

DD adored the activities weekends she did at primary school, but there's nothing like it at secondary. So we promised to arrange something this summer. Original plan - PGL with a friend. But our holidays were totally out of sync so that was off. We'd heard a few things which made us uneasy about sending her to PGL alone, and also while she loves the activities, she's the sort of child who would prefer a mix which wasn't purely physical.

So DH, who deals with such things in our family, started looking for alternatives. DD would have loved a mix of highropes etc and science/technology activities but he couldn't find any such - if anyone knows of some I'd be very interested to know for future reference. (I just thought I'd check he hadn't missed something obvious and googled '"science summer camp" site:.uk' .... can't see anything that fits the bill and the second hit is this Confused - er, no thanks!)

But he did find Camp Quest. I was a bit Hmm, having read the newspaper coverage and not being a Dawkinsite. But, on closer inspection, no suprise to find the reality quite different to the reports. It was the only thing he'd found which was close to what we wanted - a combination of physical and mental activities.

So, he showed DD the website and asked what she thought - whether she liked the sound of it or if she'd prefer a pure activities camp. She decided it sounded 'fun' - so, there we are. I shall have to report back in due course what she thought of it! Smile

GrimmaTheNome · 19/06/2011 11:11

The point I was making about evolution was in pre school children, as that article was talking about children born understanding evolution.

Which is obviously nonsensical - it seems like a misconceived piece of work throughout

onagar · 19/06/2011 12:02

hiddenhome, of course my post made you shudder. Every now and then I have to write essentially the same post to make the same point.

One of the basic misunderstandings in any debate about atheism is that most religious people see their religion as 'nice'. They see it as choirs and church fetes etc so they think 'what's not to like". So they post about atheists as though we were just being difficult and making a fuss over nothing.

I don't expect you or any other religious person to feel the same way, but it's important that you realise that many of us do. Because given that we do we are bound to want schools,camps and other places where our children are protected from being pressured to join you.

Notice that we do not want your kids to be forced into anything. Just that you leave ours alone.

You probably feel that my distaste for religion is unfounded, but which one of us carries a book that says killing gay people and helpless children is a thing to be proud of.

onagar · 19/06/2011 12:13

As for children being predisposed to believe in god. I've been saying that for years.

From the start there are big powerful beings (parents) who bring you things, protect you and tell you right from wrong. It's a perfectly reasonable thing to assume there is a bigger daddy above them making it all happen.

It's also perfectly understandable that when you are expected to leave home and look after yourself you will miss that certainty and protection. I think we all do at times.

I see no part of that which should cheer up a Christian. As a good and sufficient explanation for 'faith' it leaves no need to build an additional elaborate structure. Especially not one based on wishes and hopes without any evidence of any kind.

CheerfulYank · 19/06/2011 12:15

Onagar I completely respect that. I feel that it's my right to send my child to a school that's based in my religion, if I choose to (which I probably won't, good God they're expensive) and think you should have the same right of course. Or lack of religion, if that's the case.

But on to important things, are you a man ? I never knew! It was mentioned on another thread and I did a Shock face.

cjel · 19/06/2011 13:00

I don't need to look into it more, everyone has a belief system and you believe ther is no God - Your belief

onagar · 19/06/2011 13:10

CheerfulYank, I'm a man yes. I did once briefly change my name to grandad-onager but it seemed like emphasising it too much. Maybe we could have a subtle little symbol

I'm a bit outnumbered here, but blame my DP. She keeps sending me links. "have you seen this!!!" and I give in to temptation. :)

onagar · 19/06/2011 13:29

cjel, I have no belief about god. The way it works is this - bear with me because I have to use silly/unlikely examples to make the point clear.

I have no belief that crop circles are made by 6ft rabbits from Mars called Albert. I don't have proof that they are not. I just don't have any reason to suppose that they are. It's not that the proof is thin. There is none whatsoever right?

I don't belong to a group that believes crop circles can't be made by 6ft rabbits from Mars called Albert. This is not a belief but an absence of belief.

I think it's fairly safe to say that you don't believe in the Albert rabbits either, but it's not about having faith that they don't exist is it.

In the same way I have no belief that a big man in the sky made the universe and really cares if some people cut their hair the wrong way.

The only reason I take an interest in the God believers and not the Albert believers is that we don't have Albert believers going to our schools and trying to convert our kids/taking seats in the house of lords/etc

CheerfulYank · 19/06/2011 13:31

Well...I don't have any of that either as we have no House of Lords. :)

onagar · 19/06/2011 13:37

Actually I'm jealous. I know the US has its problems too, but I'd like to have a completely elected government, a constitution would be great and I think the UK should be divided into states properly instead of the bodged half-way thing we have now.

You have a better anthem too.

TrilllianAstra · 19/06/2011 13:38

It rather depends if they are teaching atheism as faith - "There is no God" or critical thinking/philosophy - "There is no evidence that there is a God".

I can certainly see a need for non-religious camps, especially in the US, and I think the unicorn experiment will help children to develop into adults who think about the world and don't blindly accept what people tell them.

CheerfulYank · 19/06/2011 13:43

Our anthem is great, 'tis true. I was just thinking about it (the "being American" thing as a whole, I mean) because I was watching How I Met Your Mother. One of the characters is Canadian and is studying for her American Citizenship test. She's insisting she's right about an answer and another character says:

"Not only are you wrong, but you're belligerently sticking to your guns and insulting me in the process. By God, you're American!"

:o Damn if I didn't feel just a teeny smidge of pride...

fatlazymummy · 19/06/2011 14:01

I like the term 'non religious' rather than atheist.
Camps, schools, etc should all be religion free by definition. If people want religion to be involved then they should be able to choose hose that are specified as religious. In other words 'non religious' should be the default setting. People should be free to 'opt into ' religion but not have to 'opt out' of it.

fatlazymummy · 19/06/2011 14:03

I agree about the US anthem. Our national anthem is absolutely dire, given that it contains the words 'God' and 'Queen' in the 1st sentence.

CheerfulYank · 19/06/2011 14:14

I agree fatlazymummy , and I'm quite religious myself.

CheerfulYank · 19/06/2011 14:14

About non-religious being the default setting, I mean :)

GrimmaTheNome · 19/06/2011 14:39

Trillian - they aren't 'teaching atheism' at all.

As far as I can see, atheism is mentioned in the context of countering misapprehensions!

pointissima · 19/06/2011 15:14

I can't think of a quicker way to turn one's children into Christians

pumpkincarver · 19/06/2011 15:40

However we in the UK have got Charles Darwin on our paper money, the americans have got some mystical massonery pyramid symbol. {smug emoticon}

PoppaRob · 19/06/2011 16:13

Our Australian national anthem is "Advance Australia Fair". A woeful ditty set to the usual martial music beloved of politicians. However, the Australia comedian Adam Hills set the words to the Jimmy Barnes song "Working Class Man" and it totally rocks! Your homework for tonight is to go to YouTube and enter "Adam Hills Advance Australia Fair". Wink

mathanxiety · 19/06/2011 20:39

'One of the basic misunderstandings in any debate about atheism is that most religious people see their religion as 'nice'. They see it as choirs and church fetes etc so they think 'what's not to like". So they post about atheists as though we were just being difficult and making a fuss over nothing.' Obviously you are not familiar with the Catholic Church (of which I am a member) Onagar.

The only book I am aware of that says killing gay people and helpless children is a thing to be proud of is Mein Kampf. Do you keep a copy handy?

Seriously, if you are going to have a distaste for religion, please take the time to inform yourself about 'religion'. Religion has nothing whatsoever to do with fetes or choirs. Or killing gay people. And atheism has nothing whatsoever to do with paranoia.

mathanxiety · 19/06/2011 20:42

'I think the unicorn experiment will help children to develop into adults who think about the world and don't blindly accept what people tell them.'

I think the unicorn experiment is designed to perpetuate the blind acceptance by children of things they are told by adults or authority figures.

onagar · 19/06/2011 20:53

mathanxiety, your bible advocates Killing gay people. Have you not read it?

It also praises a man for being willing to kill a child.

Do you approve of that?

onagar · 19/06/2011 20:58

I didn't know you were catholic. I wonder if you are ok with the other things your church likes to do to childen? I expect it's ok if god says so.

Original poster
Ihavewelliesbuttheyrenotgreen · 19/06/2011 21:04

Onager if you are referring to Abraham and Isaac I think that Abraham had to trust that God would intervene in even the most extreme situations and he did, if that makes sense

OP posts: