to ask if anyone has or would send their child to an atheist camp?

[Ihavewelliesbuttheyrenotgreen]

I am a Christian and have attended/volunteered on lots of Christian summner camps over the years. Mumsnet has opened my eyes a bit more to atheism and the choices that people face about religion etc when bringing up kids. Would anyone send their kids on one of these atheist camps and what would be your reasons?

People carry within them a universal truth. The Bible is only one way of expressing certain truths, people are able to find their own truth in other ways and in other places.

I am an atheist but , given that I dont believe in god or religion, I dont spend my time obsessing about bothering about people who do. Live and let live and all that. Why mock others for their beliefs? (I HATE atheists who mock believers) Why try to dissuade? Why try and prove a point? Just be what you are and let others be what they are.

It sounds perfectly nice to me.

hiddenhome yes I think they are in this country. I think it is different in the US where people seem to be religious by default.
In any case if I sent my children to camp I wouldn't expect religion to be discussed on any formal basis. I would just expect the children to do sporty and camping activities and for religion to be pretty much absent, as it should be in schools, other than in specific lessons.

No, but I wouldn't send them to a Christian one either. However, if they wished to go to either they could.

..erm, going a little far aren't you? ultimately a child that really belives isn't going to change their minds just bcause their belief is challenged by a bit if reason ? and probably, to get sent there in the firs place..probs bot too religious to begin with?

I agree fatlazymummy, kids should go to camp to have fun, not for some agenda to be presented to them. In fact, I think a religious camp would probably cause me to feel just as uncomfortable as an atheist one. Camps are for running around and doing fun stuff.

no, i probably wouldn't. because lack of a belief in god is not something that is important in my life.

but if i felt my children had been getting a big dose of christianity lately from school and guides then perhaps i'd consider it as part of a balancing out.

both school and guides are normally not too overtly religious but both have the potential to be a bit too christian for my tastes sometimes.

I disagree eggyallenpoe. My mother was a militant atheist and was absolutely furious with me when she found out I was getting into Christianity. I was frightened of her, so gave it up as a bad job just so that I wasn't defying her (she wasn't one to be defied).

Whether out of fear or love, children like to please their parents to a large extent - this might change in the teen years of course.

Not all parents really do give their children a free choice in either belief or politics. We all influence our children whether right or wrong. Not all parents are that easy going.

hmm I never like science being taught in a context of anti-religion. Enforces the idea that the two are incompatible.

I'm an atheist, but don't like the idea of atheist being branded about in a 'religious' or organised way. Dwarkins (sp?) pisses me right off.

Saying that when I met fellow physicists who didn't believe in evolution I was rather ed

"I agree fatlazymummy, kids should go to camp to have fun, not for some agenda to be presented to them. In fact, I think a religious camp would probably cause me to feel just as uncomfortable as an atheist one. Camps are for running around and doing fun stuff."

My DD now 13 joined the GCU and I was a bit worried about them being a bit too evangelical. However she did enjoy the sessions and ending up going to one of their camps and had the most wonderful time horseriding, quadbikes, hikes etc. She made some lovely friends as well. She thought the 20 minutes of bible study a day was worth it for the wonderful week she had.

It's a pity GCU had to close because for all my reservations it provided DD with some lovely memories and friends

I would consider sending DS, but I wouldn't send DD, because DD has a more spiritual and symbolic way of thinking.

I think the unicorn activity sounds very good - they were saying that some people started to have a spiritual understanding of the unicorns. It seems valuable that young people who may have been put off spirituality because of its religious and supernatural connotations have ways of developing their spirituality as atheists or agnostics.

The other activities - philosophy and some aspects of ecology are not covered sufficiently in schools so it would be good to have an opportunity to do them at a camp.

hiden surely the problm there is parntal inflexibility, not the existence of a camp?

I think atheism is the latest religion

People sure defend it with a 'religious' zeal sometimes.

I don't see why we can't all just agree to disagree. I hate religious debates and there's not point to them really.

so why join one? i quite like a good argue myself...

I think this is really for Americans, where in certain areas coming out as an atheist is like coming out in Iran

eggyallenpoe, yes, but what would motivate a parent to send their child to such a camp? It's one thing being an atheist, but quite another to go to those lengths to send your kid to a place. Why not just send them to a regular camp? There would have to be something quite definite going on in the mindset of that parent.

It all seems just as 'evangelical' as the Christian ones tbh. I also wish people would accept that religious belief and rational, scientific thought are compatible and that religious people aren't brainless morons who can't accept science.

That camp in the link is in the UK.

Everything in it's context. 'camp quest' in America was set up to counter The Boy Scouts of America's exclusion of nontheists. I.e if you didn't profess a belief in a God you couldn't join or go to their camps.

Now there's tollerance for you !

America is a perculiar place in many ways. 50% of them admit they believe in creationism. They're more open to the idea of a homosexual becoming president than God forbid a darn athiest.

I think their summer camps in general ( as is their society ) are much more overtly religeous. And personally i find it creepy. I've had various dealings with evangelical christiians and frankly i find them sinister and misguided.

I wouldn't have a problem sending my dd to one. They don't appear to have an agenda other than education. I don't see and overt bashing of the religeous on their site.

Watch 'Jesus Camp' now that is bloody scary.

" I also wish people would accept that religious belief and rational, scientific thought are compatible and that religious people aren't brainless morons who can't accept science."

I do find it hard to accept that you can be rational and religious to be honest. I think you CAN be a theist (not atheist, for the avoidance of doubt) and rational though. I think a lot of atheists have more of a problem with organised belief in general, and this is where Dawkins (though he is a brilliant writer) gets on my nerves. I don't like the idea of groups of people uniting and telling other people what to do (atheist or theist), it's just a form of hierarchy and power. Information on belief/non-belief should be available to everyone, but only if they ask for it. I don't think religious or anti-religious beliefs have any place in public life, except in RE lessons at school, which should also cover atheism and agnosticism.

Too bloody serious-minded for my liking. Like the Woodcraft Folk, who are a sort of Hampstead leftie Scouts/Guides equivalent.

Childhood is for enjoying. And so as far as possible is adulthood!

i owuld consider sending dd. i will be sending the link to dh who will be all for it.

No

Not an atheist camp but a secular camp. That's quite different. Of course many religious people won't understand the difference.

I had to laugh at "Sounds like pushing your beliefs on a child to me" in a country which has compulsory worship in schools and camps run to turn kids into Christians

As for religion being incompatible with rational thought I'm afraid that is true. You can be a vague "I'm sure there is something up there but I don't know what" religious person without it affecting anything else much, but if you believe in the whole thing with bible, Jehovah, Jesus, heaven etc and you can't see that this is baseless and contradictory than you are not being rational.

It's a free country so you don't have to BE rational if you don't want to, but it's no use pretending to be if you are not. It just makes you look even more confused.

Thats ridiculous. Really. Why do some atheist make their whole lives about something they don't believe in. Why not set up a club about not believing in Santa Clause.

I don't believe in god, I don't spend time trying to convert others then it would be a religon and a lot more hassle