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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to ask if anyone has or would send their child to an atheist camp?

233 replies

Ihavewelliesbuttheyrenotgreen · 18/06/2011 17:35

I am a Christian and have attended/volunteered on lots of Christian summner camps over the years. Mumsnet has opened my eyes a bit more to atheism and the choices that people face about religion etc when bringing up kids. Would anyone send their kids on one of these atheist camps and what would be your reasons?

OP posts:
CrapolaDeVille · 18/06/2011 20:35

hiddenhome Sat 18-Jun-11 19:51:34
So Universities didn't come out of Islam then?

and

The Vatican doesn't have it's own scientific research activities going on?

What's either of those things got to do with anything? Theologians don't assume they can't be truly scientific as they know there is a God and their science merely seeks to prove his existence and, quite frankly, attempt to prove widely accepted scientific theory wrong.

Islam may have had Universities but let's face it years ago the only educated people were religious. I would imagine most people that could read or write were religious, as religion conveniently collected taxes of sorts.

As an anti theist I cannot find a place for blind acceptance of religion, why would I? I've never believed in God, never believed in Fairies, Healing, crystals and, as each are unproven, I lump them all in the same pigeon whole called 'beliefs'. I give no more credibility to Catholic beliefs as I do Scientology, one just happened to have been penned before. I do accept that religion has had it's uses, explaining the unexplainable for those that need it and I appreciate the nature of good a community can offer. But church is not the only foundation for community.

hiddenhome · 18/06/2011 20:35

mothershipg, why do you consider it 'fortunate' that your dcs haven't expressed an interest in Scouts or Guides? Those movements do a lot with young people and they have fun, make friends and learn things?

onagar · 18/06/2011 20:36

LolaRennt just to be clear.

Belief that black people are inferior exists and is the cause of real world behaviour which I object to.

Belief in god exists and is the cause of real world behaviour which I object to.

hiddenhome, I do know really, but I was making the point that religion is just a bunch of people making it up as they go along without any solid basis for believing anything they say. Not even because they are lying really, but because they are guessing.

hiddenhome · 18/06/2011 20:38

They're not guessing, they have faith. It's impossible to explain to someone who doesn't have faith.

CrapolaDeVille · 18/06/2011 20:41

I do find much of religious rhetoric (if that's the right word) rather childish and 'God' can be replaced with 'me'/'I'.

EG

If they honestly seek forgiveness and seek God's will, then they are more likely to be right next time.

means

If they honestly forgive themselves and find the will, then they are most likely to be right next time.

CrapolaDeVille · 18/06/2011 20:42

Faith and 'knowledge' are entirely different.

hiddenhome · 18/06/2011 20:45

Having faith in God involves obedience to Him not to yourself. It is about surrendering the 'I' and the 'Me'.

You don't seem to be aware of what Christianity even is.

CassiePalmer · 18/06/2011 20:51

You can't win when you're an atheist.
Say you are uncomfortbale with the amount of religion in scouts/guides, you get told 'Quit whining and set up your own non religious group'
Set up a non religious group and you're called ridiculous Hmm

CrapolaDeVille · 18/06/2011 20:51

I certainly believe I know what it's about, apparently belief is usually enoughHmm.

Besides the point you've missed is that I think you can replace God with I...that's what atheists do. They don't defer to God they rely on themselves.

Truly if you give into the I and me, which in your case seems to be the selfish and self serving emotions then you serve yourself to the greater anyway. If I volunteer or give £50 to charity rather than fritter it away on a new pair of earrings then it's better for me in the long term.

CrapolaDeVille · 18/06/2011 20:54

What is it about the word of God, ie The Bible, that means some you follow and some you don't. Where does it say you can do that?

Surely all you have from God is his word and you all seem to be happy defying it without a worry in the world. And why does God hate women so? What sort of God hates half of the human race? Why are women still punished for the terrible things women did in the Bible?

onagar · 18/06/2011 20:55

hiddenhome, you just finished telling me that you can't assume they are right in what they say. Your own words were "It's run by people who quite often get things wrong"

It's called guessing as I pointed out. It's the technical term for what you do when you have no data to work on and base your conclusion on just a feeling.

hiddenhome · 18/06/2011 20:55

There is hardly any religion in Scouts or Guides. If atheists felt comfortable with allowing their children to go out into the world and possibly come into contact with some religious belief, then they wouldn't get so het up about what is a very minor element in society these days. They appear to object to any small amount of religion. Christianity is part of our heritage and is going to crop up now and again. Do you shield your child's eyes every time you drive past a church?

hiddenhome · 18/06/2011 20:56

When I said they get things wrong, I meant that those people do not always manage to be obedient to God, I didn't mean that they spend their time shuffling around playing guessing games over what they're supposed to believe.

hiddenhome · 18/06/2011 21:00

Why are you so full of hostility and hate crapola?

CrapolaDeVille · 18/06/2011 21:01

Even the word obedient makes me shudder.....as none of you are, NONE.

As you all interpret the Bible to the way it suits you, and the Muslims do the same.

CrapolaDeVille · 18/06/2011 21:01

I'm not....I'm rather happy,

DBennett · 18/06/2011 21:02

"shuffling around playing guessing games over what they're supposed to believe"

Best definition of theology ever.

hiddenhome · 18/06/2011 21:03

Do you know what the word 'obedient' means?

DuelingFanjo · 18/06/2011 21:06

I wouldn't. To me, being an atheist isn't about anything organised or 'anti' but just a way of being, a living without religion in your life.

OldMacEIEIO · 18/06/2011 21:06

crapola , you are well named.

full of sh1t

hiddenhome · 18/06/2011 21:08

The word 'obedient' comes from the Latin word oboedire which means not only to obey, but to listen as well. To listen to somebody else.

"shuffling around playing guessing games over what they're supposed to believe", is exactly what we're not supposed to be doing.

MillyR · 18/06/2011 21:08

HH, your statements about what atheists think and do is just odd. Atheism isn't organised. There isn't some code of ethics or areas of interest that all atheists have in common. They have different ethical systems and different areas of cultural and intellectual interest.

It just isn't possible to assert that atheists do X with their children or atheists think Y. All you can say about them collectively is that they either do not believe in God or are not interested in the existence of God.

Perhaps that's what you find difficult about them. They can't be grouped. They have no more group identity that people who wear cord trousers have a group identity.

I would suspect that most atheists in the UK are culturally Christian, and don't keep their children away from everything religious. I only know one atheist who doesn't celebrate Christmas.

CassiePalmer · 18/06/2011 21:09

I don't try to hide my children from religion hiddenhome, in fact my son does go to cubs. But I do want to bring him up non religious (not atheist) so he can make up his own mind in what he wants to believe as he grows, at the moment he doesn't believe their is a god, he may change his mind in future and that is fine by me. My daughter doesn't care one way or another, it's no big deal to me. I like them to hear about all beliefs/non beliefs.
I feel as though I choose to bring my children up to be open minded not just to follow christianity as it tradition is this country, there are plenty other religions they can look at too. As someone brought up Christian who always struggled with that (it just didn't make sense in my mind) this is important to me, but that choice is taken away by school and other activites.
We have no secular groups that are like cubs, so I choose to send him there as the positives outweigh the negative.

DuelingFanjo · 18/06/2011 21:10

and snigger at people actually thinking atheism is a belief system!

onagar · 18/06/2011 21:13

hiddenhome, Just to make my position clear.

Religions promote hatred and prejudice. Especially against gay people and women. They demand special rights to discriminate and interfere with the democratic process. They are divisive and damaging to civilised society. They discourage education and critical thought and try to replace it with obedience and dogma.
While I want your right to believe any nonsense you like preserved, I do want your ability to impose it on others stopped. I want religion exposed for what it is. I look forward to a time when no one would want to be religious any more than they would want to be a racist thug.

When you say "There is hardly any religion in Scouts or Guides" that's as reassuring to me as if you said "There is hardly any sewage in this food"