... to think that the REASON why big supermarkets are proliferating is because they provide what most familiesneed? (rant)

[fgaaagh]

I've had a bit of a disagreement (intellectual, not an actual argument) with my oldest brother about the increasing spread of supermarkets which are butting out independant little shops in the area he lives (quite an up-market area where his wife grew up, there was a campaign to get rid of Tesco's planning application a few years ago).

I honestly think that people who are against Tesco (or any other large supermarket chain) have a point in that they don't always provide decent value, they limit the range of goods available, they stranglehold the market so that e.g. it's harder to set up a new business in an area where everyone just shops at the supermarket.

But I also strongly, strongly believe that the reason these supermarkets proliferate so well isn't their bully tactics of suppliers. It's not even shrewed planning of store locations, or pricing structures, or reward schemes. It's not great marketing. Or the services they have on offer (e.g. having clothes, petrol or prescriptions next to your other foodstuffs).

It's that they provide what most people want, nay, need these days.

I grew up in a household where mum was a SAHM (she gave up a semi-professional career "because that's what married women did"), dad was fulltime breadwinner. She was able to visit a butcher, and a baker, and an independant gas fitter to arrange a repair, if she needed. But I don't know many families that have that luxury now! Certainly when I was a "SAHM" for a few years, I was also caring for an ill relative (now sadly passed away) and taking on part time freelance work every few months to pay for stuff like car repairs and one off costs, plus we live in an area where it's much less safe to let kids roam the streets. I remember getting in at an 8pm curfew as a young teen, there's no way I'd let mine stay out here independantly until 8pm at the same age (bad area).

Anyway, getting back to my point - these supermarkets provide what my family needs. Tonight, DH is working overtime, and I'm due to collect kids, pick up mum, visit dad in hospital, go to supermarket on way home, drop mum and her food off - I can only do that because the supermarket is a 24hr one!

How could I, with this schedule, visit the nice independant butcher that I know operates just a 10min drive from my house, when he closes at 5.30pm the last time I checked?

Or the last time I popped into a baker on the rare occasion I just go from work straight home, it was 4pm and they had no more than a handful of bread and cakes left at that time.

So, AIBU to think that whilst people like my brother (works for himself - runs his own company - sets his own schedule and has a SAHM) can pooh pooh all they want about the evils of supermarkets, but until (if) independant little shops don't get with the times and realise that many families have sympathy for their economic plight, until it's 10000% more convenient, I'll just continue to shop at Tesco? And that his disdain of me shopping at Tesco, is, frankly, a luxury he (not most other people) can afford?

'I don't think all of you who dismiss local shops are giving them a fair chance to prove themselves'

It's hard for them to prove themselves when they're not open past 5-5.30PM during the week or on Sundays and your Saturday mornings are taken up by childrens' activities.

Also agree jooly. Where are these independent shops that people imagine exist only for Christmas? Brigadoon? .

I also shop in Sainsbury's but love the independents. And they aren't all dear otherwise they couldn't survive. Why don't people give them a go if they have the chance?

Actually, I have a theory there, some people resent the idea of a small shopkeeper making money and in some cases feel that the goods should be cheaper than well-known stores because 'they're just local.'

Well, if they are very expensive then yes i visit them on my birthday and christmas as a treat. I cant pay £4.50 for a jar of olives

I think the 'wanky' badge comes from the feeling that yes, everyone knows that obviously independent shops are cheaper, better produce, good for local economy etc - but if you are busy as a working parent or multi-child SAHM then it's out of realistic reach.

It's financial, innit. People got more money, more time, they get more choices. Hence by judging those who shop at supermarkets, they seem 'wanky'.

When I have the luxury of time, I love going to the town's market and the butcher's. Since my shopping normally gets done at 9pm in a mad rush, Tescos it is.

I can moralise all I like, but that's how it is. No real, meaningful choice here.

In Cardiff many moons ago when I lived there, there was a huge covered market that sold everything you could ever want via a variety of different stalls. Lightbulbs, deodorant, meat, veg, pasta, cleaning products, the lot. And it was open in the evenings. If every town had that, no need for Tesco and the like.

I do think parking plays a big part. The town local to my parents has actually improved hugely since a Tesco was built. It's at the end of the High Street so people park at Tescos get the stuff they need there and then pop into the other shops at the same time.

Before Tescos arrived it used to be like a ghost town because everyone would go to the big supermarkets in the next town, now there's no empty shops and a monthly farmers market.

I'm not having a go laquitar. I wouldn't count a shop selling olives at £4.50 a jar and nothing lower as a good local shop - or not for me, anyway.

I have bakers' and deli stalls that I think are ridiculous - £2.50 for a loaf of bread, £3 for a cake for one hungry person or two dieters. They're not getting it from me but if they can get it from enough other people then they deserve to survive. They've only been going for a while so we'll see.

What I'm beginning to realise that supermarkets drive out the middle so you go to them for the basics and and someone else for treats.

What I also said was that I'm lucky to have good, well-priced independents. It would be nice if more people could have that, that's all

I know limited. The hmm face wasn't for you, i'm not angry with you i 'm angry with my local Italian shop for selling mouthwatering food but bloody expensive.

YANBU. Tescos didn't get bit by selling goods people don't want at prices they are not prepared to pay.