AIBU to think Rastamouse is mildly offensive?

[kipperroo]

Am I being unreasonable not to want DD to.watch rastamouse (a cartoon mouse who speaks in a Jamaican accent) as I find the concept mildly offensive?

It is incredibly offensive and I talked about this on a couple different threads last year. It will not be watched by my child, especially as one of her grandparents is Jamaican and it is part of her cultural heritage that is being so blatantly tokenised.
Congratulations LDNmummy. In the face of some ferocious competition you are hereby crowned Mumsnet's Most Humourless Person.

What would a good representation be, though, Kipperoo? Are they ever really going to be able to get it right? If the messages are good and the activities worthy, what more can they do?

I am Australian and whenever there is an Australian character, the accent is generally badly represented and exagerated, it doesn't accurately represent our heritage (but I wouldn't really expect a TV show to do that - I can do that if I want my children to know their heritage! Hell, I'll just take them there!) and its not generally a good representation of our culture either - koalas don't wear wooly polo necks, for a start, and we dont really call people "cobber".

Because we (Australians) are seen not to be a different "race" or "religion" (which is bad in its own right because of the very diverse Australian population) people wouldn't think this is offensive. The lack of diversity represented in Australian characters could possibly be seen as the most offensive thing if you were really looking to be offended.

Anyway, the general point I'm making I suppose is that its hard to imitate an accent particularly in the context of a "fun" show that is to "engage" children without sounding mocking. If the BBC asked me to do voiceovers for a black lesbian Australian crocodile I'd be tying myself in knots trying not to sound mocking but yet I probably would! Failing that, I would definitely sound, well, fucking stupid.

They've got a character called "supergran" on ShowMe ShowMe this morning - she has a walking stick

Soooo offended...

Is Dangermouse offensive because he is posh?

No Rastamouse is excellent not offensive in any way

Someone doing Rastamouse impressions at work would indeed be deeply odd, as would someone doing Peppa Pig impressions. I get hacked off enough with DS doing Peppa Pig impressions all the time without colleagues channeling children's programmes.

Any representation of anything on Cbeebies is going to be simplistic, because it's Cbeebies. Simplistic is what it does.

Sorry, just realised I meant to put AWCH, not LDN - apologies ladies, I think it was late and I was rather tired! :o
I think indeed there's a play on stereotypes, but not really any more than you find in most kids shows, tbh.
I haven't actually watched the show yet properly, but ... what Tatty said!

YABU Rastamouse is a fantastic hero. Are we supposed to go back to the days when everyone on TV spoke in RP and there were no accents shown at all?

DD loves him, the music and animation in it are great, and he's a heck of a lot more interesting to watch than Everything's Rosie or some of the other CBeebies programmes, particularly the ones with Justin in them (Gigglebiz- AAARGH).

And it is one of the very few CBeebies programmes to have a strong non-mimsy female character in it.

My whole family (sadly excluding me) can do a passable impression of rastamouse and if you mention his name to my my toddler he says - 'he always tries to make a bad thing good'

We do also (all of us this time) do Peppa Pig snorts!!!

Fuck me we sound dysfuntional

Everyone keeps asking OP what she finds offensive. Well, I read her post and thought - I wondered that too! So here is my answer to your question.

(Have only seen it once btw). I wondered if the accents and patois were being overplayed - I don't know, but I wondered. Is it genuinely like Balamory where there are real accents, or is it a bit of playacting - like Nigerian comedians going on all the time about their mums being extremely violent - haha, so hilarious (not!) And I also wondered if the portrayal was in a positive light e.g. stereotypical behaviours (e.g. scottish one that is always drunk). In the same way as Speedy Gonzalez might be considered as inappropriate or un-PC by some people these days.

Personally, I did not find it offensive, I absolutely loved the lilt of the patois. However, that does not mean that it is not offensive to some - which is what I wondered about.

its a fucking kids programme people!!! watch it or dont but dont try to make its a cultural thing!!

my husband and i thought the same thing when we first saw it... we not offended but thought that jamaicans might be!

I just want to give another highfive for El Nombre. Awesome.

WHY IS VERYONE SO FUCKING OBSESSES WITH RASTAMOUSE

really? WTF. unless you are a rasta, shut the fuck up

I'm not a big fan of Rastamouse because I struggle to understand what they're saying

My gut feeling when I first saw it was "good for Cbeebies, trying to get kids exposed to even more accents" so I don't mind DS watching it, although it's not to my personal taste

I can understand how some people can be sensitive to it, not helped by poor imitations by work colleagues, but I genuinely believe the producers had the best intentions.

HTH

porcamiseria what a sweary MNetter you are! even your nick name is a swear word in Italian, isn't it...
We don't tend to tell people to shut the fuck up here on MN, everyone's entitled to an opinion

Is anyone here of rastafarian descent and offended by it? If so I'd be interested to hear your opinions. As for anyone else

Why are the BBC "ticking boxes" any more then by televising the Charlie and Lola books? Personally I am so offended by the intimation that all middle class children from the south east of England have scruffy blond hair, do not like tomatoes, or having their hair cut, cannot take proper care of dachshunds and like to walk round in an alligator costume

It's just another series of children's books which have been televised. I remember reading one to DD1 when she was about 2 so that was probably 3/4 years ago...a Kentish Mancunian trying to do a Jamaican accent was...interesting.

LDNmummy do you think my Irish oh should be up in arms because their is a Irish pig family in jakers

I feel it sad that a crime fighting mouse leads you to sambo

Actually, Levi Roots, the Rastafarian creator of Reggae Reggae sauce, Rastafarian poet Benjamin Zephaniah and the writer of the excerpt I used earlier, Delroy Constantine Simms, have all been openly critical. Simms used the term "Sambo - golliwog in drag" I believe.

Roots was actually asked to voice the character initially and declined due to finding it very distasteful, even saying he would not like his seven children to be exposed to it. If you have the creator of Reggae Reggae sauce saying this then I think it is something to mull over.

Even Zepheniah said that he acknowledged that if you asked the Rastafarian community, 99% would most likely not like the mouse and would have preferred a Lion as this is more representative. He laso stated that it was not a great representation of the community and the voices are innacurate.

"Congratulations LDNmummy. In the face of some ferocious competition you are hereby crowned Mumsnet's Most Humourless Person."

Ummmm.... Yeah. Sorry, I didn't realise I should have found this portrayal of Rastafarianism and Jamaican culture funny because other people do. Sorry again. Let me set aside all my beliefs and become more humourful about it.

Maypole that is up to you. This is my reaction to something that I find distasteful. This is a decision I have made about this show.

If you or your Irish OH feel something is offensive then that is your perogative.

As it is mine to find this offensive.

I dont find it offensive, my gran (Who is jamacian) loves it. what amazes me is all the uproar about it because its a BLACK character. Like has been said no one minds the irish sterotype or the scots.

A few years ago there was an advert with little old white ladies talking in carribbean accents (gum i think it was) making fun of it. I HATED it because I grew up hearing the stories of how my gran was treated after coming to england, shes white and she got horrible comments. But its ok to make fun because shes caucasian.

Each to there own. Its possible to find something people will offensive in most things. I mean surely Miss Piggy is a terrible character for kids, she beats poor kermit, surely thats exposing kids to domestic violence.

And what about Jamaican like I said their are a fair few "Jamaicans" or jafackecans as I call them whose children were born here who themselves were born here and whose parents were born here and have barley been to Jamaica but see fit to comment on behalf of jamaicans who were actually born in Jamaica.

You negate to mention the person who WROTE RATSA MOUSE is A RASTA so your view that because two rasta don't like it so it's a kin to sambo is stupid.

And you haven't answered my question should the irish be offend that the pigs in jackers are Irish

Sad lady do not speak on behalf of all black people I am black and love the show and do not see to speak on behalf on rastas unless you have spoken to every one and FYI some rastas are white and don't try and speak on behalf of Jamaicans.

This is yours , sauce man and Ben zephinah view

Don't you dare try and make white net mums fell they they are some how bigots for watching this show

Shame on you

You do not speak for me or by bi racial family

"And what about Jamaican like I said their are a fair few "Jamaicans" or jafackecans as I call them whose children were born here who themselves were born here and whose parents were born here and have barley been to Jamaica but see fit to comment on behalf of jamaicans who were actually born in Jamaica."

So you are saying that unless someone is born in their home country, they have no adequate education enough to comment on such issues? This statement alone is highly offensive to your own community. How nasty to call people 'jafackecans', which I think you have spelled incorrectly. BTW my DH's parents were all born in their home country and he was raised within his community. I was born in my home country and speak from the perspective of a person of African heritage who has grown up in this country with a strong sense of my cultural identity, eating the food, speaking the language and knowing my customs etc.. (just a side note in case you were implying something).

"You negate to mention the person who WROTE RATSA MOUSE is A RASTA so your view that because two rasta don't like it so it's a kin to sambo is stupid."

Actually, it wasn't my point that it was akin to Sambo, I highlighted that a Rastafarian had done so in response to another poster who wanted to know if any Rastafarian people had been critical of it. I do however agree to a large extent with this point, but It was not my point to begin with.

"And you haven't answered my question should the irish be offend that the pigs in jackers are Irish"

I did answer your question. To clarify as you obviously did not get it, It is up to the individual, how can I make a decision on behalf of another ethinic group exactly? My decision was to find Rastamouse offensive as an individual, I cannot say whether you or your DH or the Irish should find something offensive, it is down to the individual and that group to decide for themselves.

"Sad lady do not speak on behalf of all black people"

So are you one of those posters who has to stoop to personal insults because they cannot form a constructive argument? As you can see from what I have already stated above, I have not claimed to speak on behalf of anyone, it is my viewpoint. I used the opinions of others to back my own, but never once claimed I was the voice of a race. And you show ignorance in your use of the term 'black' to refer to African/ Caribbean people. I am African, but not black in skin colour, I am white actually. My DH is African and Caribbean mixed and he is not 'black' either, more a shade of dark brown. Besides, Jamiacan people are so diverse they come in all shapes, sizes and skin tone from white as snow to black as charcoal. So I wouldn't claim to speak on behalf of 'black' people anyway, It would be more accurate to say I was making a claim to speak on behalf of African/ Carribean people.

"I am black and love the show and do not see to speak on behalf on rastas unless you have spoken to every one and FYI some rastas are white and don't try and speak on behalf of Jamaicans."

Please refer to my post above. And good for you if you love the show, that is your opinion. I repeat, your opinion. You do not speak on behalf of others either my dear and I doubt you have spoken to all the Rastafarians in this world either, so why is your perspective any more valid than mine that you can judge me?

"This is yours , sauce man and Ben zephinah view
Don't you dare try and make white net mums fell they they are some how bigots for watching this show"

I did not once call anyone a bigot for watching the show, can you please highlight where I used such strong wording? People differ in how they view things, me being against this show does not mean I think the people who watch it are bigots, so can you now stop speaking on my behalf.

"Shame on you"

Shame on you for getting on your high horse and being such a hypocrite, putting words in my mouth and using personal insults. And also for using a term so derogatory to your own community as 'Jafaickans'.

"You do not speak for me or by bi racial family"

And I never claimed to, I think you need to step back from your computer screen and come back with fresh eyes.

No shame on you ldn.

Iys not MY COMMUNITY as you put it my community is mixed and is a London one, not a exclusively black one as you seem to think

Because i am black you assume the whole black coumminty is mine when we all know just like white people the black race is hugely diverse

My coumminty is firstly my family which is nit wholey black

My coumminty is my friends which are not wholey black

My community is were I live which is Asian

Do not assume because we have the same shade of skin I am part of your coumminty gurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

And this is what i am talking about as if because I am black I should fall in line with the black power movement, so in your view because somone finds no harm in a black Jamaican mouse they are re inforceing racial stereotypes

Ldn
What I find so shameful is the number of educated black people who have heaped praise on the BBC for providing such an ?innovative? children?s programme. Worse still, they are excusing the programme by suggesting that it will somehow aid the process of breaking down racial stereotypes, and also implying that it will provide more opportunities for struggling black authors.

All these self appointed spokes people for the "black community" r Antony about a mouse mite speak for you but they don't speak for me

Sorry a quote from LDN

What I find so shameful is the number of educated black people who have heaped praise on the BBC for providing such an ?innovative? children?s programme. Worse still, they are excusing the programme by suggesting that it will somehow aid the process of breaking down racial stereotypes, and also implying that it will provide more opportunities for struggling black authors.