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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think if God does exist, he's a bit of a bastard?

104 replies

toptramp · 14/06/2011 15:50

I am especially interested to hear from any Christians. I am not a Christian but I would describe myself as a spiritual person. I don't know if there is an after life, nor do I care. In fact if nothing happens to me when I die it would be a relief.
Some of you may have read my threads about how my mother is dying of cancer. The suffering is awful even though the pain is managed, it is hard to watch someone die and loose all her faculties. Also she is very young. How do you Christian folk justify the suffering, unfairness and pain that goes on in the world such as famine, children dying etc? I am searching for answers but I just cannot find any comfort at the moment.

OP posts:
deemented · 14/06/2011 16:48

ITA, TW My local vicar was wonderful. Despite me never ever having set foot in his church, he agreed that my son could be buried there, he waived any fee and he said a non religious service. I felt totally bereft of any God, but i was comforted by this man and his congregation.

zelda1982 · 14/06/2011 16:48

I believe in "my" God, i'm not particulary religious but this year has put a few things into perspective for me. At the beginning of the year i decided, after years of saying i was going to but never actually doing it, to do a Sun Holiday. So i booked up to stay in a caravan (with my nan and my kids) near where my mam lives (300 miles away) and whom i hadn't visited in 4 years for the last week of April. Anyhow 14th April we were told my mam had terminal lung cancer and didnt have very long to live. I went down for a week as soon as i found out with my nan, brother and uncle as we were (at the time) told she had days left. Anyhow after a week of being there she had perked up a lot and we had to come home. Anyhow we still went on our caravan holiday and my mam got to see my girls for the last time. Had i not booked that holiday, she would never of seen them again (and them her) so I thank God for making me book up. There was also a few other things but kids are moaning so gotta go sort them out.

Northernlurker · 14/06/2011 16:48

Oh yes - being a Christian doesn't necessarily make you a nice person Grin

Funtimewincies · 14/06/2011 16:49

This was a constant thought of my childhood and one that I could never fully reconcile. I did not want to be 'saved' by a vengeful god and the free will argument always seemed a bit of a cop-out. At 34 I finally accepted that I no longer believed and no longer cared about the fate of my soul if, indeed, I have one. Nor those of my loved ones. I do not believe in a grand plan. I have a degree in Theology, so it's not as though I didn't give it enough thought Grin!

I feel so much happier, more free and at peace with the world. And I was always told that peace was a product of faith.

Mind you, it'd be a dull world if we were all the same.

travellingwilbury · 14/06/2011 16:49

Thanks sausages , it was a few years ago now and yes on the whole we are as ok as we can be .

Original poster
toptramp · 14/06/2011 16:50

i have a lot of respect for people with faith rather than the religion itself. it takes a lot of strength to believe and moreover, keep the faith.

OP posts:
sausagesandmarmelade · 14/06/2011 16:50

That's good to hear travelling....

take care

deemented · 14/06/2011 16:51

Quite, NorthernLurker - as i found out when the Canon at the Catholic church refused to baptise DS2 unless i told him i accepted it was 'Gods Will' that my DS1 died.

Northernlurker · 14/06/2011 16:55

Deeemented - I'm sorry about that. What an utterly vile way to behave Angry

ShoutyHamster · 14/06/2011 16:57

GODSNET! Love it Grin

  • 'AIBU to think that I'm the only one of you that actually exists and everyone should worship ME'
  • 'YABU!'

-'YABU!!'

-'YABU!!!!'

etc. etc.

Grin
MollysChamber · 14/06/2011 16:59

I think that's where Christianity gets a bad rap tbh deemented

That was one man's perception of what you should do. He was wrong imo.

I've heard some awful things being said by Christians who are for the most part good people. Don't even get me started on some of the views I've heard on homosexuality for example. People get things wrong.

dadof2littlebuggers · 14/06/2011 17:03

i dont belive in god, however, the god described in the old testament wasnt the loveing god that the church reinvented in the last 100 years or so his wrath was regularly kindled against his children.

if you belive in god, theres no reason to asume he's a nice person, but he is nonetheless the boss

sorry about your mum

ShoutyHamster · 14/06/2011 17:07

Ah sorry guys that post came barging in just at the wrong moment - didn't mean to be daft when a serious discussion was going on...

As you were... incidentally the two very different experiences are quite typical I find - being a Christian doesn't necessarily make you a nice person at all sadly, though the outlook of some people with a strong faith I find amazing. Which leads me to think that it is the person, not their faith, which is the important thing - and faith is simply twisted to meet one's own ends.

Sorry to hear about your loss deemented - and those of others on this thread.

thebestisyettocome · 14/06/2011 17:23

Travellingwilbury. Being grateful for good things wasn't the point I was trying to make. I don't have a particuarly strong faith atm but it does strike me as a peculiar human failing that we are quick to blame and slow to say thanks. I mean that generally btw and not specifically in relation to the op.

MollysChamber · 14/06/2011 17:26

Good point thebest

To give some thought to what we have to be thankful for would probably be a very positive exercise for most people when you stop and think about it. A good thing in itself whether you have faith or not iyswim?

MollysChamber · 14/06/2011 17:31

Sorry that was a general point, not to OP.

Nothing worse than being told to be grateful for what you've got when you're going through a really difficult time - wouldn't do that.

Sorry.

itsatiggerday · 14/06/2011 17:46

I'm sorry to hear about your mum. It's a good question to ask and one that Jesus talks about a bit in Luke, chapter 13 verse 1-5. He deals with some of the high profile tragedies of the day and poses the question whether those who suffered were more sinful than anyone else and that was the reason for their suffering. He gives an emphatic no but then warns his listeners to repent - turn back to God - before they also have to face their mortality. So, we need to be wary of trying to trace direct lines of causality between the suffering of specific individuals and actions they have taken. However the suffering is a general warning that things are not right in this fallen world of ours. CS Lewis called suffering something like God's megaphone to our world, it's one of the things that confronts us with the unfairness and pain in the world and pushes us to search out perfection and justice instead, which should lead us to God.

Just a suggestion but have you tried reading the book of Job in the Old Testament too? It's the story of one man's terrible suffering as satan tries to prove that the only reason he has faith in God is because he has done pretty well out of it materially. Some churches post their sermons online so may be worth looking for some on Job to help unpack some of it as it's pretty long. Job does vent pretty honestly at God though and God responds, although not necessarily as we would like to hear.

I hope this doesn't doesn't sound glib, I'm not trying to say that there are easy answers and they probably won't give you complete answers, but I have experienced to some extent and known friends who have experienced to extreme extents what it means to keep trusting God in the midst of suffering, so I guess it is possible to find answers that are real in dark times.

GilbonzoTheSecretPsychoDuck · 14/06/2011 17:46

Northernlurker your first post moved me to tears and reminded me why I have the faith I do. Thank you.

GrimmaTheNome · 14/06/2011 17:50

Personally, though this isn't something I would say in real life as I know it's controversial, I think that's what faith is for. A man-made invention to comfort those who need it.

I think that's spot on (not the only function of religions, but one of them).

Someone sent me a card with that 'Footprints' thing on it after my Dad died and - while I knew it was kindly meant - I found it quite irritating. No, there was no-one 'carrying' me through it except real people.

There is no satisfactory way to square the circle. If God is omnipotent and made everything, then he is responsible for suffering. I'm with David Attenborough on this:"I can't believe a merciful God invented parasites to torture small children..."

MollysChamber · 14/06/2011 17:57

Grimma I am a bit schizophrenic when it comes to religion really.

You quoted me above. But it was also me who posted Footprints....

I hadn't heard that Attenborough quote before. He has a point....

PamBeesly · 14/06/2011 18:20

Grimma thats how I feel about the Footprints too...I always got the sense that it was no matter how bad things were are they could've be worse but I've been there to make sure that they weren't all bad I hate it actually.
I have great faith, in people...I don't see Gods love working through people either I see the beauty in the sacrifices people make for each other and the compassion we can feel for each other. I don't belive in God at all, 'he' does not exist for me in 2011 and has been used in the past as a scare tactic...I'm a very angry Irish ex-Catholic though.

pumpernickel10 · 14/06/2011 18:23

How can there be god if we have wars, genocide etc. Can a christian tell me why this happens?

CurrySpice · 14/06/2011 18:26

Oh OP I'm so sorry to hear about your mom :(

spookshowangel · 14/06/2011 18:30

pumper i can tell you what a Christian would say. humanity has free will, we are not forced to worship god. we can choose are own paths in life and what we do with them we can choose to go to war, murder, rape and lie. these things are not what god wants for us but he will not make you come to him, or do the right thing it has to be our choice. or some thing along those lines. its all about free will.

LadyBeagleEyes · 14/06/2011 18:40

The Christian God is in a win win situation.
People who believe thank him for the good things that happen, but never seem to blame him when terrible things happen.
So if something wonderful happens it was a miracle, thanks be to god.
If the worst happens, well he works in mysterious ways dontcha know, he's got his reasons.
I'm not a believer, btw.