to want a fair split between work and childcare responsibilities (long, sorry)?

[ellsbellls]

First ever MN post (although I am a long time lurker) so please be gentle with me... Issue as follows and I'd be really grateful for your views and advice:

The heart of the problem is money and mine and DP's differing views on its importance to our lives and happiness. As background, we've been together three yrs and are expecting our first child (imminently, I'm due next week).

DP earns very well and has what most would consider a fantastic work/life balance (think 10 weeks hol per year plus a standard 4 day working week). However, he hates his job, finds it very stressful and draining and doesn't get on with his colleagues at all. He moans about it A LOT! His negative feelings are undoubtedly compounded by the fact that he has saved/inherited a considerable amount of money and probably wouldn't have to work again at all if he didn't choose to. He occasionally admits that he has probably become a bit lazy and can't really be bothered.

I also have a very good job with good terms although not on his league. I earn less than 50% of what he does and don't have any savings. I enjoy my job (relatively speaking) and get on well with colleagues although I can have patches of high stress and long hours.

We currently live in a house which I own. I pay the whole of the mortgage and also pay all day to day living expenses. DP pays for holidays, breaks away, meals out - big one off stuff. This is a source of contention between us as I don't think it works out fairly. He saves nearly his entire salary while I am down to zero every month.

DP is constantly planning for the future when he says he will buy us a house outright so that there will be no mortgage to pay. However, in return for living in this house I will be expected to work full-time to pay for all household living expenses plus holidays etc which he doesn't want to do without.. in order that he doesn't have to dip into any of his savings (he doesn't express it in quite this way but that's what it boils down to). He is likely to go part time or give up work entirely in a few years time, if not before. He sees the purchase of this house as his contribution to our lives and the rest is down to me. The house is completely unimportant to me. I am happy where we are now and don't see the need for anything bigger/better. I have told him this.

The issue is I think that I will be incredibly jealous and resentful of him playing the main role as child carer while I have to work full-time. I can't understand why he wouldn't want to share this in a more equal way with me when it is something that I have told him is important to me. I don't want him to stay in a job he hates but I feel that if we sacrificed some of the more expensive things that we have been used to doing (holidays etc..) then we would both be able to have a more equal work/life balance. Ideally I would like to go part-time while children are pre-school and then I would return full-time. He says that he doesn't want us to struggle. But in effect he is saying that going on expensive holidays etc.. is more important than me spending time with my family (even for a few years). I find this so mean and miserly.

I know that ultimately we are both in a very fortunate position and apologies if this comes across as a bit spoilt. I would be very interested in views as I may be missing something... Thanks!

I'm with expatinscotland. This is not going to last. It will end badly. Time to make exit plans now. There is no way I would have settled down with a guy with this attitude. He cares for money/his financial security over you and your family life together.

OK I'm sure these points have been made, but if you get a bigger house, the bills will be bigger and he wants you to pay these. Don't get sucked into that.

In any case, like people have said, this man sound like very bad news. Selfish and ignorant. You need to start protecting yourself from him. You are in a seriously bad position if you would even consider taking a loan to pay the mortgage whilst he is swimming in money.

Tell him that in return for growing the biggest investent of your lives - your child - in your body, and giving birth to it, you will require him to contribute at least half of all ongoing and day to day living expenses in order to be allowed to enjoy the company of the child during the week. Or rather your fee for allowing him to share parenting will be equivalent to half his working week.

Really - he has a most bizarre and unfair way of viewing a partnership, and one totally at odds with running a happy, successful family.

I would try going to counselling - seriously.

And whatever you do, protect your own assets while this man holds such selfish and exploitative views - do not sell your own house and pool your money. Maintain a rental income from your house, and keep it in your own account.

How DARE he suggest you work f/t to pay rent for living in his house while he sits back and lets you work fo the bills and holidays.

Here's something else to chill your bones. If you went out to work f/t and he became the day to day hands-on parent, and was also financially self sufficient, what do you think would happen if you did split up in the future?

Yup - he would have a very good case for gaining residency, and you would lose your kid(s)

I'm due to have our 3rd child this week and if my DH was putting me through this thought process, at this time, I would be furious.

DP is constantly planning for the future when he says he will buy us a house outright so that there will be no mortgage to pay. However, in return for living in this house I will be expected to work full-time to pay for all household living expenses

Constantly planning for who's future? And why are you 'expected' to do anything, shouldn't this be a mutual decision? You are obviosuly a very capable adult (mortgage, good job etc) so you need to believe in yourself and speak up for your rights and that of your child. My first thought tbh when I read your post was that there is no way on earth this man will give up his life to be a SAHD when faced with the reality of an infant. Not a chance.

Wow I never say this, (tend not to venture onto Relationships) but you should start planning life as a single parent. I can't understand why you would want to be with anyone so selfish. Just for the record, I'm a working mum and our money is just that, our money for now and for our furture and our childrens future. Whay would it be any other way?

How long have you been together because you should start thinking about what it will be like one you own. You shouldn't want to be with him now seeing as he isn't even paying his way but the very idea that he would allow you to get into debt for 2 extra months of mat leave is insane. Start looking at nurseries and make a reservation to go back when your baby is 7 months, you may find you need it.

Sorry

OP Perhaps if you tried writing down, say in a table, what you both contribute now in each area and what it will look like in the future, both in terms of time and money, it might look a little clearer to you that he is completely taking the piss.
And it might (but probably won't) help him to see how unreasonable he is being. But you need to balance it up, and his proposals for the future sound very risky for you.
This is not right.

Thank you everyone. I think that has been the kick up the bum that I needed to say the least...

I know I'm not BU but it's funny what you can convince yourself is normal when a situation has evolved over a period of time.

The custody thing terrifies me and I think I will seek some advice about that. It's mad though as it makes it sound like we're planning to split up - and we're not! As surprising as it may sound we actually have a great relationship (aside from this issue) and are both really looking forward to becoming parents.

Thanks again!

I never say this but you need to pack his things and ask him to leave. you will be better off financially, with council tax discount, tax credits etc and all you bills bar the mortgage will be lower, leaving something to save. then you can go to the csa for maintenance.

I have never heard anything so mad in my life as what this 'man' is asking of you.

I left a good career where i was earning just over 30k to become a SAHM. I used my savings plus inheritance to pay a 25% deposit for our house in joint names, dh pays all bills now plus he saves money in his account and puts £250 into my savings every month as this is what i previously saved. we have equal access to the joint account where his wage is paid.

Show him this thread, if he still doesn't get it then he needs to go. you need to protect your future.

I haven't read the whole thread but whatever you do, no matter how this pans out, DON'T sell YOUR house. If you do ever move, rent it out.

Always have some security behind you for what may happen in years to come, if you plan a future with this man.

Sorry but he is using you, you do not have a great relationship.

Are you the same poster that was being asked to sign a cohabitation agreement and then a pre-nup to make sure that you never got any of his money? And whose dp thougt that you should work after maternity leave to make up fo the fact that you hadnt contributed to the mortgage while on maternity leave?

You need a template for a fair system from now on, really. Personally i think that it would be fair if you worked out the total ampunt of jpint outgoings you need to budget for - bills, food, mortgage, holidays, meals out - everything that you dotogether, and for the baby. Then pay each pay a ratio of your income into that joint household account each month. So - if your household expnses were £1000, and he earned 50% more than you, he would contribute £600 a month and you £400. And while you are on maternity leave, you reduce your cntribution and the balace comes fom a joint contingency.

He needs to understand that in a family partnership 'fair' does not always mean the same as 'equal'. And / or he needs to see how very lucky he is to be able to make a choice about working / not working, and stop being such a spoilt brat! And think about YOU. It is almost inevitable that time out for maternity leave wil affect your career and your future potential f suporting yourself - has he thought about that?

Honestly, in his model you are reduced to a sort of brood mare, breeding the child he wants to parent, but paying for your keep. I cannot think you will be happy with this way of life for one moment.

If he thinks you are some kind of gold digger happy to live off his inheritance, then he is being very insulting to you, in the absence of any evidence that you have planned to leech off him!

I am sure he will decline to marry you because of the liability that would place over hs fortune - so you need to think seriously about a will and how your child would be provided for if anything happened to him or you split.

You have a 'great relationship' except for the part where you pay all the bills, even though he is earning money AND has huge savings, while getting away with only paying for the big fun things here and there. Oh, and the part where he tells you that you are going to have to work ft indefinitely while he can choose to do whatever he likes. I'll bet he is also imagining that being a SAHP is the easy option. I'd almost like to see it happen to see him learn his lesson on that.

This is IN NO WAY NORMAL. He needs to start paying his fair share towards the day to day expenses now. If he won't even do this you are in big trouble. The good news is that you could be a lot better off without him.

Must be tough to hear this - but if this really is his only flaw then counselling could help. Maybe he is truly screwed up about money because of tue way he grew up. But the problem goes further than that because there is also the lack of care for your feelings and wishes about family life - or indeed the way that you as s family will live. So that is not just money related - it shows a wider unkindness. He says that 'in return' for living in the house ... Eh?? You are his partner and mother of his child - you have a home together, why should you be giving anything as a payment for sharing it ?

I actually own the flat my partner and I live in - and I bought it with some family money. I consider it 'our' home - I would never ever dictate how my partner lives his life or how we organise our family simply because I have family money

This man is saying he gets to be a sahd and gets to choose to atop working because he has savings - but sadly you will have to keep working as you don't. There is just so much wrong with that I don't know where to begin.

I have run this whole thing through my mind imagining that the sexes are reversed. Because after all, many women do ask their DH's to do the f/t woh while they become a sahm, and may well use family money of their own to enable that choice.

What is missing from your scenario, thogh, is any degree of mutual planning, mutual decision making about how you can both pool your assets and potential for the best support of your child and to the maximum happines for every member of the family. In the traditional set-up described above, there is generally an undestanding that each partner is contributing to a shared and joint family pot of well being - in what ever form. There is nothing wrong with a working woman and a male SAHD, if that is the way the family decide to organise themselves. It is the dynamic and decision-making process - as well as the reasons behind his decision - that make this all wrong in your case.

I've thought about the situation in reverse as well. But that would mean both partners working, the woman earning more and sitting on considerable savings which she refused to spend, while the man took out loans to struggle to pay the mortgage on their family home. That would be just as bonkers IMO! Surely any 'normal' couple would share the costs in some way if they were both in paid work, whether it's by pooling everything as 'family money', paying equal or proportionate amounts into a joint account, whatever arrangement they prefer.

I think it's fine and good for men to be SAHDs, if that's what works best for a particular family, very much in favour of it in fact. I think the problem here goes beyond that though, as you describe Blu.

Would be slightly sceptical in this case whether the DP actually wants to be a SAHD, or just doesn't want to go out to work any more - because it's not the same thing. Of course that goes for many women as well, I'm sure!

'As surprising as it may sound we actually have a great relationship (aside from this issue) and are both really looking forward to becoming parents.'

Because you are cowtowing to his financial abuse. You need a counsellor, because there is a strong potential you will end up homeless and without your child, particularly as you are not married.

You have convinced yourself you have a great relationship. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

His issues with money are insane. He sounds horrible

I have never heard of anyone having to get a loan to pay their mortgage despite their partner earning a good salary (and savings!).

Out of interest - has marriage ever been discussed?

I don't understand how you can have a good relationship with someone who's attitude to money is so fucked up.

Also, I don't understand why, given he's in an enviable position of not needing to work, he hasn't got a new job before now.

Hmm... We have a 50:50 split of all household bills. I earn significantly less than my husband, and like your partner, he pays for holidays/meals/treats on top of the household bills. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, as long as it's an agreed status quo. His money isn't mine - he works hard for it and he chooses what he wants to do with it, just like I choose to spend my money on things which are important to me. The joint bills are things we discuss together and if one of us wants to cut/increase the budget then we talk about it properly and reach a compromise.

But I have to agree with others: your current house is yours and should remain that way, unless he works out a better compromise over who pays what and equally sharing the bills and putting your name on the title deeds. Worst case scenario, you split up and still have a house which you can afford to pay the mortgage + bills single handed on. The alternative is that you buy the bigger house, he floats around doing nothing all day whilst you work to pay the inflated bills and then if you split up you're left with a bigger house and bigger bills to pay for which you didn't want in the first place!

However it is a little unreasonable to expect him to suddenly sponsor your yummy mummy lifestyle when he's more than capable and willing to look after your child himself. That's where I have to agree with him. If you want to cut back your hours in order to spend more time with your child, that's up to you to fund it. If it was the case that he expected you to do that because you needed childcare, that's unreasonable because it's as much his responsibility as yours to look after the baby. But in this instance it just sounds like sour grapes because he's organised his life so that he can take time off (albeit you may have unwittingly helped him fund this!!).

I'm utterly amazed that you have put up with this. It's truly astounding in an awful way. Why an earth are you being such a fucking door mat? Why are you pandering to his crazy view of things?

How can he love you if he doesn't take into account your happiness and well being?

Northerngirl- do you have children? How is childcare funded and managed?