to think that parents who have very obese children are guilty of neglect

[MeconiumHappens]

It's accepted that if a child is undernourished, dirty, ignored/emotionally neglected etc that a family can be subject to children's services intervention, but what about those who bring their children up to be VERY obese? Surely over feeding/poor nutrition in the EXTREME is a child welfare issue. I'm not suggesting every child noshing on a happy meal be immediately sent to foster care (before someone inevitably makes a similar comment) and am thinking of the most extreme cases but would be interested in other peooples thoughts on this. It seems to be something we side shuffle around to not upset the child/insult parenting but if its a health issue surely it needs to be managed appropriately for the childs health.

My ds was extremely thin as a child ,hes still is ..he eats like a horse ,should he have been taken away

Sorry, xpost wiht tralalala. It still doesn't answer the question: what criteria are they using to judge a child as overweight or obese? If someone told me my child was either of those things based on BMI alone? I would also cry bullshit. Because BMI is worthless and seems to be what the health agencies use.

Even when obesity is caused by genetics or disability, surely a higher standard of care is required to ensure that the child's weight is managed. Not a blithe 'oh it's genetics and therefore not my problem'.

Two years ago I would have agreed with you OP, but in the last two years, my average size Ds has gone from a healthy BMI to obese. Everyone else in our family is a healthy weight, and I cook proper food every night.

Peoples judgement has made me miserable, I can't stop him eating what his friends eat when he is out, and is he active, at least an hour of sport a day and loads more at weekends, so i really don't know what else to do.

The thought people may think I am neglectful has led to sleepless nights.

Tee2072 I think they'd go by the look. We all know what obese looks like.

And the thinness of back in the day is more likely to be due to the lack of fast food on quite the same scale as nowadays. I'm thinking of the 60s ad 70s.

Tee I've been saying that for years - no ADHD, ODD, etc and related ishoos either - why? because we were over the park from dawn till dusk, riding bikes, dangling from trees, working off energy ...... unlike a very vast majority of todays bubble wrapped kids, who are taken out for a perfunctory hours execise in the park if they are lucky, then plonked infront of the television/games consoles thereafter.

However, food quantity isn't always a factor. Additives have a big part to play too.

I work in a secondary school and we have an SEN student who is morbidly obese. She struggles to join in with PE (her ankles simply cannot take the weight) and is constantly bullied.

She is 'in the system' in that she is under an NHS health trainer - who gave her free gym access and suggested healthy lunchbox ideas.

Everyday the student puts the majority of the lunchbox in the bin, and eats junk food bought on the way to school with money given to her by her parents, both of which are also overweight.

Both the parents and the Health Trainer have been notified of what goes on but yet it still continues.

I agree, OP. You are talking about obese children, not just overweight or whatever. I think everyone would recognise what 'obese' actually means when they saw it.

I taught a child who was obese. He had trouble walking, he was out of breath often, he slept poorly and he was ill a lot. His self-esteem was very low as well. When he had to stop and sit down for 5 minutes after climbing the stairs one day, I was so shocked it sort of woke me up - why on earth was I not contacting home? So I did, we got the right agencies involved and the support was offered to his family.

It's not about making all sorts of screechy judgements, it is about highlighting a health issue. IMHO, it is a form of neglect to not tackle a child's obesity, given the impact it has on their health and ability to enjoy life.
Very tricky to raise, though!

"We all know what obese looks like"

You can use BMI for the first sift, then investigate further (actual proportion of body fat). Presumably intervention would start with monitoring and healthy eating / exercise advice.

Meditrina get the off yer face.

I posted earlier about what teachers are legally obliged to do where I live, and one of the ways we suspect a child is being neglected is by what we see. And obesity is defined as neglect.

ive 3 dcs one underweight but eats a fantastic healthy diet just she doesnt like sweets or sweet things or crisps ect she never eats between meals either and another slightly over weight who eats the same diet but tbh is a lazy teen so i think its an exercise problem then ive another who used to be under weight but is ASD and now as he has got older as his food repetoir is so narrow has got a bit chubby none would i consider fat and definately obese but oh how offended id be if they were told by school ect to lose weight im so sick of this governments and the last poking their nose into our private lives they should educate them in healthy eating but thats as far as they should be allowed to go my dc used to regularly have his penquin bickie taken off him by the dinner lady i dont feed them sweets ect all day it should be up to me what i put in their lunchbox aggghhhh

No. You don't know what obese looks like. I'm technically obese, if you go by BMI. No one who looks at me believes it.

Why? Because of the way I carry some extra weight and because I know how to dress to flatter myself.

I am also working to lose the weight but don't stand there and tell me 'you know what obese looks like'.

That's just as full of bullshit as using BMI for anything. Ever.

This is where the difficulty is, as highlighted here, that I said about the very most EXTEMELY OBESE children and about intervention and immediately people screech about the overweight children or that im suggesting they be taken into care. Read the OP. EXTREME cases where children are VERY OBESE is what im talking about, not puppy fat but a significant risk to health. And intervention doesnt mean whisking children away from their families, but proviing assessment and support for those who need it. A general sift of children via something easy like BMI is fairly workable i would imagine. We all know bmi is not infallible but realistically if you picked a high enough number it is unlikely you would be faced with a huge number of children with health conditions or muscular builds. And even if weight is attributable to medical condition/genetics it doesnt necessarily mean education and support would not be benficial, in some cases it may be even more crucial.

echt: if you can reliably identify obese by sight, then you are truly unique.

Except for the very few grossest cases, appearance is notoriously one of the very worst indicators.

troisgarcons Sun 12-Jun-11 17:56:13
Tee I've been saying that for years - no ADHD, ODD, etc and related ishoos either - why? because we were over the park from dawn till dusk, riding bikes, dangling from trees, working off energy ...... unlike a very vast majority of todays bubble wrapped kids, who are taken out for a perfunctory hours execise in the park if they are lucky, then plonked infront of the television/games consoles thereafter.

Hang on, Troisgarcons, can you run that by me again - when you were a child there was no ADHD, ODD, etc, and related issues either. Yes? This is what you said, did you mean this?

I was reading an article yesterday on the potential introduction of weight loss surgery for teenagers. This sort of surgery is usually only offered (in a publicly funded healthcare system) to the morbidly obese (ie those who are at risk of dieing from the side effects of being too fat).

This is not about some children being a bit overweight, but about children suffering really significant health impacts. These are children who got very fat under their parents watch and whose only chance of losing weight is if their parents are totally on board. At the moment there are intervention programs, whether they are sufficiently funded is one thing and whether parents really get on board with them is another. The article I was reading was presenting the view that the growth in obesity was related to parents not wanting to say 'no' to their children more than anything else.

It's hard to say. I have a friend whose dd is a little over weight but her mum was the same at same age and grew out of it.
I have neighbours whose 3 Dcs are grossly obese but I can be quite sure it's lifestyle. I saw one dc walking to school with a 2 litre bottle of lemonade glugging it on the way. Must be 1000 calories in that one bottle without all the other food on top.
Better food ed in school would be a start

And healthy food can be expensive unless your canny buying in bulk Planning meals etc. Not everyone is in a position to do that.

it is neglect to feed children so that they are obese. it's awful to think of all the future health issues the kids face as a direct result and how weight can effect confidence.

MeconiumHappens (great name, BTW ) I ask you again; who decides what is 'EXTREMELY OBESE'? What is the criteria to decide?

And once it is defined and the children and parents are educated or what have you what do you do when the child's weight does not change? When the parents do nothing?

You can't force people to stop eating junk and start exercising any more than you can get them to stop drinking. The entire US government wasn't powerful enough to stop that.

So what is the UK government going to do to get people to lose weight???

what i was trying to say is ive basically three kids and there all different one is over weight but hes eating a very good diet and doesnt eat many sweets or snacks but he is less active so you cant always tell WHY someones fat there are hereditary factors im fat DH is thin my poor DS(15) eats far less than his peers who are visiting us but they are think hes not he takes after my side of the family where as DD takes after her Dad and is very slim the there are people who do let their Dcs eat anything whenever they want (i always make them ask between meals before taking anything from the kitchen) but i do have a friend who feeds her dc 4 pieces of KFC every lunchtime and crisps god knows what he has for dinner or brekkie but he is also allowed to eat whatever he wants from the kitchen and drinks coke by the gallon hence hes obese . I think its sorry for the bad analogy a bit like people spoiling their pets and making them fat some parents feel such guilt and allow their dcs to eat whatever just to keep them quiet as if they are being mean saying no when actually its quite the opposite

If any child's health is being damaged by parents who constantly feed them shit and unsuitable portion sizes, whilst seeing they get little exercise...that is neglect.

That goes for underweight, 'normal weight' and overweight.

oh and of course theres a small minority who do have health issues causing it so just try not to always judge if i sound judgy of my friend i dont mean to but i do KNOW she is over feeding him im not just assuming

its not always neglect worraliberty some people are plain thick and dont think that far ahead they think of today giving johnny a MD and a chocolate bar will keep him quiet while im busy oh and bung a dvd or video game on ... not thinking and lack of educations sometimes the cause (not that im any kind of academic or anything but i hope ive got common dog lol) some just dont unfortunately , plus they do just carry on with the way their parents fed them its bred into them

Difficult Q Tee. Perhaps something which is easy to apply as a general sweep like BMI (i know it has limitations) and then individual assessmen of those who fall into the highest catagories.
Agreed its difficult to get people to stop over eating/underexercising but we're talking about infliction upon children so that changes things. Its more socially acceptable to feed your children to excess than other health damaging vices. Perhaps if it was as socially unacceptable as giving children alcohol it would attract similar consequences. I wonder if having a BMI of 50 is less or more harmful to the health than drinking a can of lager a day...hmmm (genuine hmm not some sort of 'loaded' hmmm- what is it about mums next that makes you put disclaimers in posts lol)

I think we can all get hung up on words and terminology here. I don't think anyone could seriously suggest that children who are overweight are being "neglected" however a child that is so morbidly obese that they are at risk of developing or already have developed secondary conditions as a result must be considered in the same category as a child who is underweight. Both are malnourished and clearly the parents, for whatever reason, aren't dealing with the problem, so perhaps someone should intervene...... Quite how though, I'm not sure