To be a bit confused and a bit annoyed that I earn less

[MrsKravitz]

As a senior lecturer at a University than an A level teacher.
Seriously considering changing.

You cant kick them out...other misconception

They sue our arses

milkysmum we do have demonstrator, lecturer and senior lecturers posts

joyjac, it is while since I did supply teaching but I did a full year of it about eight years ago in very difficult schools in London and Portsmouth. When I first started it I was very upset by what I had to endure, in fact after the first day I burst into tears as soon as I got in the door at home becasue I was so drained and horrified by what I had seen.

However because I was moving around from school to school, in my case I never took on a work load. I didn't have to plan lessons, do marking or take full part in the life of the school so in that sense I wasn't what I would call a proper teacher. The hours I worked were emotionally tough but short. I'm not saying this is easy, it's odd: I felt colleagueless and lonely in the job and wanted to do more than I ever could. This I know would all be very different if I had been in a long-term supply contract.

So I'm afraid I stick with the 'not a proper teacher' comment, not meaning it's not hard or not valuable but that sort of short-term supply is not the same in terms of work-load as being a 'proper' teacher.

We have no win no fee pople target our students. University always comes down on side of student.

Most A level students will not personally be paying / getting in debt for 9k a year tuition fees.

Pople? People!

activate, not only could I not kick mine out, I couldn't even ask them to leave the classroom.

The student is always king

Its all about the money

Just a thought...don't the university lecturers do the research with produces the knowledge that the secondary school teachers disseminate?

In theory anyway

So that is why they might expect to be higher paid

And I wish the students all wanted to be there! They want a degree yes, but not the same as wanting to do the work

forehead - were you a full time lecturer when you were lecturing? And recently? Because even in the last 3 years say there is much more emphasis on student experience, interaction etc. I would have never dreamed of going to a prof or senior lec and telling them about my health problems / boy trouble / housing problems etc. We do a lot of signposting / counselling work now.

Yes university lecturers (and researchers and phd students) produce the knowledge that teachers eventually teach.

And university lecturers teach the teachers.

Or you could say peppa, most academics needed a secondary school teacher to get them where they are now ...

yes, sorry, I meant anyone who is research active (or at least produces decent results!)

I'm a secondary teacher and sometimes like the look of the grass on the other side. The uni staff I know who don't have anywhere near as many teaching hours and obviously much longer "holidays", and generally a lot less pressure to perform. However it will depend a lot on the subject (maths has a lot less preparation and marking but in turn is harder to motivate some children) and school (I was teaching in a high flying Grammar school) and the university (My mil didn't even have to go in everyday!). I'm very well qualified so in theory could have pursued either but do enjoy teaching 6th formers.

I used to find it odd that a reception teacher who may have basic academic qualifications was paid the same as a highly qualified subject specialist but that's just how it works out!

If your post is anything like in my uni, you get a nice office to yourself and can do research AND teach throughout the year? You get fairly on-the-ball students who are quite interested and you don't have to discipline, and you choose what to teach mostly (depends on the subject, of course!), and you aren't constantly gearing towards the exam. Everything I learned at a-level was for the exam and the entire curriculum was exam-based. Everything I learn in lectures is just generally useful for research, paper writing, own knowledge. What subject do you teach? Is it a 'red brick' uni'? I think student interest varies somewhat depending on how tough it is it get in!

I think if you were an a-level teacher you'd probably get a shed load more extra responsibilities and more hours of teaching, and it's a completely different environment. You have to do the discipline and attendance malarky. The crowd is tougher to please!

Peppa - you said Uni always comes down on side of student. What do you mean exactly? Hasn't been like that at my university, unfortunately for me!

I don't know much (anything really! ) about the university system, but are you an employee of the state or that university i.e. on a state payscale or a private one?

shed load more extra responsibilities? Sorry, terrible proof-reading!

rosmarin I share a room with 4 others.

And we do have to discipline...granted its in a different way but we do. Uni students can be rude fuckers

Ros - I don't know how typical my uni is, but here some students are lovely, many are fed up with some aspect of their degree (understandable - why should they love everything?) and a few are actively a pain, either because they really don't want to be there or they've hit serious mental illness/drink/drug problems. They mostly had to get AAB to get in, I think. So not too hard but not that easy either. It's a red-brick.

I would never want to imply it's anything like the sort of serious crowd-control you might have as a secondary school teacher, of course. But I found the pastoral care aspect fairly tough - in a small class I had one with a serious mental health issue (poor lass) and two more with attitude/academic problems I had to spend a lot of time on. My teaching load was very light because I'm not a grown-up academic yet, but it really gave me some insight into just how much support students need and expect - and how tough it is for some of them being away from home for the first time!

I had to teach to a fairly strictly-set course (though we did get some imput into content before we started) - the most obvious thing was being very careful about teaching the right guidelines for submitted work. But as you say, not as target-focussed as A levels.

Discipline and attendance, obviously, you still have to do.

OP from knowing lecturers personally I would say your conditions sound rather peculiar and not at all the norm, I would be addressing that.

Anyone can be rude - people sometimes come down a little harshly on us students and it's not always warranted. Some of us are genuine, responsible and interested (and not too whingey!). My experience of being at my university (and what I see of my department) seems completely different to what you're all saying, so maybe it's not the norm?

In my department the lecturers all teach their preferred, specific areas. It's probably quite strict as to the specifications, but it's all their own interest-areas. But then it's literature/film in a foreign language so pretty obscure perhaps? They do all get their own offices!

In my time at university I've never seen anyone disciplined but that's probably not representative. And granted, many students don't seem to want to be there. But there's a core of students who are interested, enjoy doing the work and enjoy most aspects of our course.

Wow! Really? Sorry, I just can't believe all your lecturers teach their preferred, specific areas. I am English lit - maybe it is different in more specific subjects, but you could never make a Lit degree where people did that. You'd need a huge faculty!

I have to say, when I was an undergrad I had less idea of what/how much academics did. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case with you, but it could be? I mean, you wouldn't see/hear of students being disciplined ... it's bad practice to do it in public.

I am an academic at a RG university. My Dp is an academic at a post-92. I'd say the op's working conditions sound typical for a post-92 university.

However, whoever said we get long holidays.... ha ha ha ha ha.

I have a PhD, and so does my second in department. As I said right down the thread, it is a different thing, teaching in schools and teaching in a university. And it should be, surely? The challenge does not come from subject knowledge of course (although of course we get some very bright pupils who are fabulous and exciting), it comes from teaching. I work in a difficult school because that is where my preferred challenge comes from. Teaching A level is different to teaching bottom set year 8, and teaching in Higher Ed is different to teaching in school. In terms of contribution, I don't think it's worth playing top trumps.

The thing is, my students (I know) think I teach my specific subject area. I absolutely loved what I was teaching, but I have to admit I hadn't actually read some of the texts I was teaching until I came to do the course. That's standard in my area, but I guess Eng. Lit. is so big and Film may be that much smaller.

I felt very privileged to be in a position to help students who were finding it tough, so please don't think I was complaining - it's just it does take effort and time, especially if you're not just trying to help them with issues that have a bearing on your course but also advocating for them and finding them non-academic support. They're not just your responsibility 9-5 - I got some sad emails at midnight that I really felt needed a reply asap.

I wonder what the student's attitudes and opinions would be if they were aware that some of their tertary lecturers are paid less than their school teachers were. (This includes postgraduate students who are paying £700 a module as well).
Not suggesting they necessarily place the value in terms of what they are paid but curious as to what their viewpoint would be.