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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think this about modern Feminism?

83 replies

Catmilk · 11/06/2011 18:07

I AM a Feminist, but by God over the last few decades has it radicalised a lot of people to believe the very worst of men and to see women as victims at every turn. These are the people that are ruining Feminism IMO, and making many young women want to have nothing to do with it, which is a terrible shame.

Do you agree or not? ONE post each please. (otherwise I think it will veer off-topic or derailed) I will make no further posts, just conducting a survey as it were.

OP posts:
basingstoke · 11/06/2011 19:10

Lord yes. I was on a thread that was apparently about feminism the other day. It would have gone quite differently in the feminism topic. If you're doing a survey, you need to think about your sample.

Catmilk · 11/06/2011 19:11

"WTF do you think chat forums are for??"

Derailing something you don't want to happen? Attempting to annoy someone you don't agree with?

OP posts:
DontCallMePeanut · 11/06/2011 19:11

Pffft, that's it.../ Blame me because I'm a woman, chnageforthebetter Bloody misogynists... Wink

Catmilk · 11/06/2011 19:13

Never mind, I'll forget all about it. I might have a little cry about how my thread got ruined, but I'll probably get over it.

bye! xx

OP posts:
SybilBeddows · 11/06/2011 19:14

yyy D0gFace, some of the stats are v alarming when you actually think about them and put them together.
It is so easy to buy into the idea that we don't really need feminism any more and then when the facts are there in front of you, it becomes so clear that we do.

ragged · 11/06/2011 19:16

Traditional feminism did that, too, Catmilk (answering your original Q). Read Fear of Flying.

nenevomito · 11/06/2011 19:20

I don't think feminism has caused people to think the worst of men. I think some men do that all by themselves.

I do think the media plays a part scaremongering eg 'all men are paedophiles'. However conviction rates for rape are still scandolously low, women are still at a disadvantage in so many area and woefully under-represented in government.

So, no I don't think that feminism is to blame for women being victims or people thinking the worst of men. I actually think that proper equality and feminism are needed to stop those things.

d0gFace · 11/06/2011 19:21

I didnt realise feminism was about equality(as I thought we already had that).

I actually thought it was about women being better(not really the right word) then men.Blush

cory · 11/06/2011 19:22

No, I do not agree. An interest in gender equality is far more mainstream now than it was a few decades ago, and I have seen no radicalisation of feminism since my young days.

Catmilk · 11/06/2011 19:26

Wow - this is place really is full of fucksticks...

OP posts:
Catmilk · 11/06/2011 19:27

Sorry, i was still looking at page 2 when I said that - some intelligent responses on this page, thanks

OP posts:
DontCallMePeanut · 11/06/2011 19:37

Fuckstick? No, that's my boyfriend, deary...

PrinceHumperdink · 11/06/2011 19:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

buzzsore · 11/06/2011 19:54

I think it's rather amusing that if your survey had worked, and you'd got a result you didn't agree with, you were going to decide MN isn't representative rather than the people you know not being representative. Grin

buzzsore · 11/06/2011 19:56

A missing "it being" in there somewhere. Blush

StewieGriffinsMom · 11/06/2011 20:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

flippinada · 11/06/2011 20:16

Why do (some) people persist in believing that feminism is all about men being THE ENEMY. It isn't - it's about women and men being treated as equals (nb - equal does not mean exactly the same).

This pops up quite frequently on MN and feminists get accused of being man bashers/haters when they are nothing of the sort.

flippinada · 11/06/2011 20:20

And, the women accusing feminists of being man-haters are usually the ones who make comments along the lines of 'Oh, all men are ', 'that's just what men are like, you have to put up with it' etc.

Far more man hating imo.

HellAtWork · 11/06/2011 20:34

I'm 34 and I was one of those annoyingly cheerily naive women who thought we'd won the war (because I had a good education and got to be a lawyer and earned good money blah blah so where was the inequality in that?) and have lots of male friends who would freely acknowledge I could paste them to the floor in most debates (pub-based or otherwise) and then BAM, I had a baby. And then I realised just how naive I had been.

I am sorry it took me so long to be this angry motivated and to realise and want things to change. I have wasted so many years with what was an essentially I'm alright Jack attitude (in the UK - I was an 'international' feminist in the sense I could see oppression/inequality in other countries but so much less so here).

What I don't get is why so many people expect 'Feminism' to be one homogenous thing? Like Judaism doesn't have orthodox or liberal reform and so many shades between? Like Communism doesn't have Stalin at one end and Gordon Brown at the other (erm....not my best example). It reminds me of how people expect each and every Muslim to be representative of an entire religion with as much in-fighting (Shia and Sunni and more) as most religions (Catholics and Protestants anyone?) and to be able to speak on behalf of all Muslims. Do we think the Pope speaks for all Christians? And while I was naive enough to think equality was here (and now I know it's really not) I don't think I have ever been so naive as to think some people who consider themselves aligned to a particular political movement or religious faith speak for all of those who might consider themselves feminists/communists/christians/muslims, let alone half of the entire world's population.

So Yabu, OP. A big fat YABU to you.

And I was foolish and naive when I was younger NOT because the hairy men-haters were putting me off feminism but because I so wanted to believe I lived in a world Feminism had made true. Having a son has made me horribly aware that this is not so. I suspect a lot of young women feel the same, existing in a fragile bubble of self-belief: that lapdancing clubs are cool, that their boyfriend's choice of porn is just what every man does, and that Nuts, Loaded and Cosmo really do provide insights into the male and female psyche.

A quote that has always rung so true to me about feminism is this, a feminist speaking to a men's conference about rape:

"I don't believe rape is inevitable or natural. If I did, I would have no reason to be here. If I did, my political practice would be different than it is. Have you ever wondered why we [women] are not just in armed combat against you? It's not because theres a shortage of kitchen knives in this country. It is because we believe in your humanity, against all the evidence."

To believe Feminism is about hating men or curtailing women's choices (be their choice to engage in prostitution or be a WOHM or SAHM or not be a mum at all) is to display, at best naivety, at worst ignorance. To be able to reconcile central tenets of a movement or faith with one's own existence and lifestyle demands self-awareness, analysis and self-reflection.

I say having a child changed my view. But maybe it was just the catalyst for thinking about how much better the world could be. Lots of people better than me don't need to have reproduced for that to occur to them and some of those people will change the future. But are we ever going to give them that chance while we're too busy decrying feminist stereotypes and ignoring the real causes of why women don't want to acknowledge equality doesn't exist. It is because the reality is just too, too horrible. Sadly.

FreudianSlipper · 11/06/2011 20:42

another women are getting their own way too much and getting bitter thread

you are talking crap, you think some are radical now look at what the suffragettes did it does not even compare

and shock horror not all feminists agree with each other but what we are all striving for in this world is equality and we still have a long long way to go

Irksome · 11/06/2011 20:48

how can you have a show of hands on such a ridiculously phrased idea? You want to know whether we agree that

  1. it radicalised a lot of people to believe the very worst of men and 2) to see women as victims at every turn and 3) these are the people that are ruining Feminism and 4) that this is making many young women want to have nothing to do with it and 5) that this is a terrible shame..

Um ... yeah! Hands down to all five.

Stupid.

SybilBeddows · 11/06/2011 21:28

great post Hellatwork.

there are a lot of splendid posts on this thread Smile

MrsKarbonara · 12/06/2011 09:17

Wow Hellatwork what a passionate post, great stuff. I have to admit I was the same as you to an extent. My head was firmly in the sand, mainly as it seems so damn difficult to be conscious about this stuff and it's easier not to think about it at all and just try and get on with life.

I think for someone to claim to be a feminist and then spend most of their time on a predominantly female forum having a pop at feminists is strange indeed. Are there really no other targets for your ire Catmilk? Oh, and are you the same person as Keep?

Yabu.

GabbyLoggon · 12/06/2011 11:38

Well the feminists were the brainy types who pushed thgegender thing along. Women have a lot to thank them for for their current position. (Do you all agree it has improved in the last 40 years?) Business women are not brainy in the way that feminists (BUS WOMEN ARE OPPORTUNIS WITH A STREK OF RUTHLESSNESS)

sunshineandbooks · 12/06/2011 11:49

Great post HellAtWork - describes my own 'seeing of the light' very much too.

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