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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to worry that the feminism of the 1970's is erradicating feminitity...

178 replies

MrsTwinks · 10/06/2011 15:32

Im fully prepaired to be flamed... but the other thread reminded me of a conversation I had with my stepsister and cousin a while ago.

Both were career women of a sort before they had their kids and became SAHP, and were talking about how guilty it made them feel, yet SS said she loved being a mum and it was all she ever wanted. It seems to me that the attitude of our mothers (all mad feminists in my fam i'm afraid) got so engrossed in trying to have a fantastic career and being the perfect mum they lost sight of the truth that you cant have both.

I remember my mum feeling that she had to go out and have that wonderful career she was told she was entitled to (not that she wasnt dont get me wrong) contantly trying to find something that made her has fulfilled as being a homemaker because she was made to feel she was "letting the side down" by not going for a career and being a mum. Ironically shes doing the same to me now, as is being done to alot of my generation (in my fam and friends at least), we are being made to feel guilt because we DONT WANT to be career women. Homemaker has become an ugly word and makes you lazy/stupid/scrounger or whatever.

Add to that the likes of Newsnight last night where we are told putting girls in sparkly and pink clothing (nevermind cut or item or whatever) and telling them to kiss daddy goodnight is tantamount to sexualising children?!!!?? what next.. Im all against revealing clothes and all that, but seriously.. how is a little girl wearing pink sparkly clothes and kissing daddy goodnight bad?? and yet our mothers generation of feminists is telling us that its wrong. It appears to me they are telling us that being FEMININE is bad. What is wrong with the way we are made??

ok rant over, but it REALLY gets my goat that (to me) all these women are telling me its bad to want to be a STHP who has a home made dinner ready when people get home and a clean house, and whos life is more about her kids than her high powered career because I have a brain. All I wanted to be when I grew up was a mum and now Im supposed to have a new dream because someone tells me mine isnt enough and I am pandering to masocism or some such.

Please tell me i'm not the only one? or was i really born decades too late

OP posts:
LineRunner · 10/06/2011 23:23

OP so you believe you are conversing with 1970s feminists?

gordongrumblebum · 10/06/2011 23:25

What do you do all day being a 'homemaker', MrsTwinks?
Surely homemaking is now much easier and less time consuming than it was 50 years ago, to give you the chance of going out to get a little part time juob.

MurphyWasAnOptimist · 10/06/2011 23:28

The question you need to ask MrsTwinks is why if staying at home is such a great choice (and I'm not saying it's not), then why don't men jump at the chance? Instead of one full-time (usually) male earner and one either (usually) female part-time earner or full sahm, why don't we see more men at home? Why is that at the school gate it's nearly all Mums? Where are the Dads? Shouldn't it be equal if gender wasn't an issue?

And can you not see any problems that might develop in the future for a young woman who has stayed at home, not working, from the age of 20? What do you think her earnings will be in 10 years time when she decides (possibly) to re-enter the workforce? What might happen to her if her relationship breaks down (look at the statistics for young couples - the odds are against her)? Again, not to delegitimise an individual choice, but who is bearing the risk here? The young man? No, he's probably out developing his career and his earning potential. It's the young woman.

Cocoflower · 10/06/2011 23:29

What a horrid post Gordon

You have just confirmed exactly what MrsTwinks has been saying all along about being made to feel disrespected and bad for her choice as a homemaker.

Original poster
MrsTwinks · 10/06/2011 23:30

The women I have encountered within my social circle, church and work who have these views are all women who have described themselves as feminists or activists in that era yes. It is a generalisation based on my experience of those I know and have encountered via their outspoken views in the media. If its the minority view, I am happy to stand corrected, but this is what I and my contemporaries within my "sphere of experience" seem to be experiencing.

OP posts:
LineRunner · 10/06/2011 23:31

Coco I'm suspecting satire from Gordon.

Could be the benefit of improved educational opportunities for women since 1970, you never know...

AyeRobot · 10/06/2011 23:31

Did Germaine Greer annoy you, MrsTwinks, and remind you of women in your life? Is that what this is about?

Perhaps you should read some of her writings. I would recommend The Whole Woman. I just re-read it recently and was blown away how slow the pace of change is, even though we think things are moving really fast. And you will see just how supportive she, a 70s feminist, is of mothers.

AyeRobot · 10/06/2011 23:34

Church? I would be a little circumspect on their views of the role of women, to be honest.

And who the heck are all these people pronouncing on your life choices? Am I particularly unapproachable that I never get comments made directly to me? And I am fairly ripe for the the commenting.

Original poster
MrsTwinks · 10/06/2011 23:34

I actually work, as I stated if you had read my previous posts, although my career is not my priorty my homelife is. This is something that I and sahp friends and relatives of mine had discussed and I am unhappy about and wondered if I/we were the only ones

OP posts:
Cocoflower · 10/06/2011 23:35

Church? I would be a little circumspect on their views of the role of women, to be honest.

Shock
LineRunner · 10/06/2011 23:38

Feminism is an economic argument not a lifestyle choice. Economics are rooted in politics and culture.

Millions of women benefit from the results of other women's work from the past, without even knowing it or respecting it.

AyeRobot · 10/06/2011 23:39

Is that controversial, Cocoflower? That religions are patriarchal?

It seemed a strange amalgamation of feminists and church-going women in the blame-fest. A bit oil and water.

Shock Here come the Bible-loving feminists. Have I ignited the thread?

gordongrumblebum · 10/06/2011 23:39

I certainly didn't mean to offend, I'm geuninely interested, as I think the role of home-maker has changed beyond all recognition. I work full time, and run a home, without employing a cleaner - I have a vacuum, a dishwasher and a washer-drier, which do the work for me.

I can't imagine what 'home-making' entails, as we have all these labour saving devices.

'Home-making' 50-60 years ago would have involved a day doing laundry, daily shopping (in separate shops), public transport, less cleaning products, inefficient electrical appliances......it was a time-consuming occupation.

Just interested in what being a home-maker today actually entails.

Original poster
MrsTwinks · 10/06/2011 23:40

Actually ayerobot it was a thread from earlier (which I think wad removed due to some very poor taste militant man bashing crap pretending to be feminist) reminded me of a discussion I had had on this before

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsTwinks · 10/06/2011 23:42

I wouldn't call my church congregation very patriarchal. Our vicar is a woman to start with...

OP posts:
AyeRobot · 10/06/2011 23:42

That was very vague, MrsTwinks. Can you be a bit more specific?

You do know that the man-bashers around here aren't the feminists?

Original poster
MrsTwinks · 10/06/2011 23:45

The role Homemaker has changed, and once children are in school there is very little need to be home all day as I see it. Think I'd go nuts on my own all day to be honest but it doesn't make it a bad or invalid choice thou.

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsTwinks · 10/06/2011 23:48

Ayerobot didn't want to be more specific as didn't want to reiginite the fire iykwim. Wasn't nice, some bollocks stats about family rape. It was more a few comments within about feminists reminding me.

OP posts:
sunshineandbooks · 10/06/2011 23:50

What is with the anti-feminist threads dominating MN at the moment?

I will keep posting like many other feminists here because if we don't the myths will perpetuate.

If you want to find someone who shows why the role of SAHM is so important and yet so hugely undervalued, you're way more likely to get that from a feminist than you are from any other member of society.

Feminists do not hate men. Indeed, many feminist ideologies suggest things that would benefit a lot of men. It's about equality, not getting one over on the other half of the species.

Cocoflower · 10/06/2011 23:51

I take great offence lumping any group together as if they one homogeneous mass.

And comments like "Church? I would be a little circumspect on their views of the role of women, to be honest" is suggesting church-goes are one homogeneous mass.

LineRunner · 10/06/2011 23:51

I wouldn't call my church congregation very patriarchal. Our vicar is a woman to start with...

No schisms then in the Church over the ordination of women that you've heard of?

animula · 10/06/2011 23:52

Agree so very much with sunshineandbooks. And you're right - it can't be repeated enough.

MrsTwinks - are you saying that you are cross because someone told you some of the stats on inter-family rape? It does exist, you know.

Original poster
MrsTwinks · 10/06/2011 23:53

I know they aren't btw, just within they were claiming to be, which made me think of these women who talk of the great strides they made for women's rights etc etc then berate the choices I and my generation make with those rights...

My mind likes tenuous links, it's not really relevant. Last week someone mentioned monkeys to me and it reminded me I needed to return the wizard of Oz to the DVD place.

OP posts:
AyeRobot · 10/06/2011 23:53

Were the comments about some generic feminists that someone once met?

You see, I get really fucked off about the myths that are spread about feminists and what they stand for. Lots of people believe a load of old cobblers without any knowledge at all about what feminism is all about.

Have you ever read any feminism literature? Do you read the feminism boards here? Perhaps if you did you would have some ammo to fire back.

animula · 10/06/2011 23:54

(Actually, that should be intra-family rape, shouldn't it??)