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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to worry that the feminism of the 1970's is erradicating feminitity...

178 replies

MrsTwinks · 10/06/2011 15:32

Im fully prepaired to be flamed... but the other thread reminded me of a conversation I had with my stepsister and cousin a while ago.

Both were career women of a sort before they had their kids and became SAHP, and were talking about how guilty it made them feel, yet SS said she loved being a mum and it was all she ever wanted. It seems to me that the attitude of our mothers (all mad feminists in my fam i'm afraid) got so engrossed in trying to have a fantastic career and being the perfect mum they lost sight of the truth that you cant have both.

I remember my mum feeling that she had to go out and have that wonderful career she was told she was entitled to (not that she wasnt dont get me wrong) contantly trying to find something that made her has fulfilled as being a homemaker because she was made to feel she was "letting the side down" by not going for a career and being a mum. Ironically shes doing the same to me now, as is being done to alot of my generation (in my fam and friends at least), we are being made to feel guilt because we DONT WANT to be career women. Homemaker has become an ugly word and makes you lazy/stupid/scrounger or whatever.

Add to that the likes of Newsnight last night where we are told putting girls in sparkly and pink clothing (nevermind cut or item or whatever) and telling them to kiss daddy goodnight is tantamount to sexualising children?!!!?? what next.. Im all against revealing clothes and all that, but seriously.. how is a little girl wearing pink sparkly clothes and kissing daddy goodnight bad?? and yet our mothers generation of feminists is telling us that its wrong. It appears to me they are telling us that being FEMININE is bad. What is wrong with the way we are made??

ok rant over, but it REALLY gets my goat that (to me) all these women are telling me its bad to want to be a STHP who has a home made dinner ready when people get home and a clean house, and whos life is more about her kids than her high powered career because I have a brain. All I wanted to be when I grew up was a mum and now Im supposed to have a new dream because someone tells me mine isnt enough and I am pandering to masocism or some such.

Please tell me i'm not the only one? or was i really born decades too late

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsTwinks · 10/06/2011 15:58

pink isnt a feminine colour. As I said it was an example based on a comment.

give me a chance Im a slow typist! When i say feminity I mean the more tradtional aspects. The idea that we can be gentle, caring, the heart of a home. By that I mean caregivers or matriarchs, all ends of that spectrum

By the same yes it is bad that boys cant wear pink. Go with it I say, they should be allowed, same as they should be allowed to be nurses or stay at home dads without guilt and lets be honest, once they are adults and away from the playground in this country they can "embrace their feminine side" and be nannys or wear pink or stay at home with their kids, all things they tradtionally wouldnt be able to do without ridicule, just the same as they can embrace the masacline and be butch and whatnot.

OP posts:
garlicbutter · 10/06/2011 15:58

Ormirian [applause]

MrsBethel · 10/06/2011 16:01

Great post Cogito. Very thoughtful.

GrimmaTheNome · 10/06/2011 16:02

The idea that we can be gentle, caring, the heart of a home.

I can do that, alongside having a job. (and even better, DH can do the gentle, caring bits too).

I think you're setting up false dichotomies.

garlicbutter · 10/06/2011 16:03

But the things you've mentioned as "feminine" are all things the patriarchy determines as feminine. Is a girl footballer unfeminine? Is Nigella unfeminine when she holds out for an even larger fee for her next show? Is the president of Argentina unfeminine? Can a male nurse/nanny not be masculine?

I suspect you've been shaped by the patriarchy far more than you realise.

azazello · 10/06/2011 16:03

so are you actually saying everyone should make whatever choices they want about how their family works and ignore media comments? I'd certainly agree with that but think most people do anyway

garlicbutter · 10/06/2011 16:04

Hah, Grimma, wish I'd been smart enough to say "false dichotomies"!

^^ What Grimma said :)

Ormirian · 10/06/2011 16:04

"The idea that we can be gentle, caring, the heart of a home. By that I mean caregivers or matriarchs, all ends of that spectrum" Yep, that's me! On a good day Grin

I also go out to work.

giveitago · 10/06/2011 16:05

'ok rant over, but it REALLY gets my goat that (to me) all these women are telling me its bad to want to be a STHP who has a home made dinner ready when people get home and a clean house, and whos life is more about her kids than her high powered career because I have a brain. All I wanted to be when I grew up was a mum and now Im supposed to have a new dream because someone tells me mine isnt enough and I am pandering to masocism or some such. '

What's that got to do with feminity?

Modern life is hard. I can honestly say that when I was growing up I didn't want my mum there all the time. I loved her but I didn't need her every minute of every day -I was at school lots - why did she need to be at home preparing a clean home and preparing my meals? Why? I don't think I'd have noticed if home was dirty or meals were boil in the bag or microwave.

To me my mum was the huggy kissy person I could talk to - I didn't need a home cleaned by her or meals cooked by her.

I think it's great ot be a sahm - also great to work. If you're doing what you want to do it's great.

Original poster
MrsTwinks · 10/06/2011 16:05

Ormirian, I agree, but I would say making a choice influenced by patriarchy to do that they want you too is bad, but IMO, being influanced by the matriarchy to do something other than what you want, or being made to feel bad because you have done what the patriarchy wants is like being a child in the middle of a divorce. We should be able to make our own choice, men and women alike, without being told by we are letting down our gender and all they fought for.

OP posts:
mippy · 10/06/2011 16:07

There's a huge revival in crafts, baking and other traditionally 'feminine' pursuits - Kirstie Allsopp, Cath Kidston and the like. Cupcake baking businesses. Surely if some Feminism Mothra was going about telling us all that 'traditional femininity' was wrong, this wouldn't be happening?

garlicbutter · 10/06/2011 16:07

Ummm, so why don't just make your choice and get on with it?
Who are all these people telling you off - and why do you care?

EldritchCleavage · 10/06/2011 16:07

Well, surely you've just got to choose for yourself, and ignore the disapproval (whcih is inevitable whatever you decide).

Joolyjoolyjoo · 10/06/2011 16:07

I'm surprised that people are making you feel guilty about wanting to be a SAHP. I've been a SAHP/ part-time SAHP and now gone back to work full-time- I definitely feel more guilty now than I ever did, and I feel my SAH friends judge me for it.

But no-one is responsible for making me feel guilty- I am perfectly aware that it is my own doing. i'm also the heart of my own home, thanks!

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 10/06/2011 16:09

Interesting post, Cogito, nice summation.

Original poster
MrsTwinks · 10/06/2011 16:10

ormirian, im not also saying dont go out to work, I do. But I also don't think its the most important thing in my life, its the thing i do to fund my life. Its not high powered and its not exciting and im certainly not the boss. But I made the choice not to go that route because I want to be able to "switch off" when i get in and new myself I wouldn't be unable to do that.

Other friends dont work at all because they gave up the career to concentrate on their kids. And yet we've all felt at times that the generation that fought for equality and us having a choice doesnt like the one we have made and feels we have let the side down.

Maybe its our familys, we joke our folks are all out hippys lol.

OP posts:
stripeywoollenhat · 10/06/2011 16:12

may i just point out that neither the ability to be gentle, or to care, is a sexed attribute, and the utter nonsense of identifying them as 'feminine' probably contributes to the reluctance of many men to embrace such behaviour?

Cocoflower · 10/06/2011 16:15

There is no doubt the respect the SAHPS role used to command is now greatly in declne....

but is it feminisits fault as such?

GrimmaTheNome · 10/06/2011 16:15

Certainly you may, stripey - having identified my (masculine in all the right places) DH as gentle and caring Grin

stripeywoollenhat · 10/06/2011 16:17

no, it's not, coco, it's a function of the market place, and derives form a thoroughly unfeminist world view which values individual in the context of economic output only.

stripeywoollenhat · 10/06/2011 16:18

i'm pleased to hear that, grimma Smile

garlicbutter · 10/06/2011 16:18

Hang on a sec, OP. How are your family finances? If DH suddenly ran away with a cage dancer, would you & DCs be all right?

If you've not made adequate provisions to be able to live independently, I see why your older relations might be concerned about your attitude.

stripeywoollenhat · 10/06/2011 16:18

from

allegrageller · 10/06/2011 16:19

cocoflower- do you see working mothers getting any respect either? I really don't.

I think respect for mothers in general has gone down the tubes. Just like respect for any caring role that doesn't 'create wealth'.

Cocoflower · 10/06/2011 16:21

allegrageller- I feel like mothers are damned if they do, damned if they don't.

There is always someone judging you for whatever choice you make?

How the hell did this happen?