Actually I'd rather be on benefits

[Spudulika]

... than have to work 40 hours a week in a boring minimum wage job.

Not doing either myself thankfully (working DH, I have well-paid p/t job), but thoroughly resenting the line that the conservatives are taking that the reason many people have a terrible quality of life is because they're not working, and that they'll invariably have a better quality of life if they're not on benefits, because going to work somehow always makes your life better.

I suspect that the majority of mp's have never done these sorts of jobs, and have never had to live on the minimum wage, otherwise they wouldn't be saying this.

IMO what makes people's live shit is being educationally and culturally impoverished, poor housing and poor mental and physical health, none of which are likely to be alleviated by spending 40 hours doing repetitive manual labour.

If work doesn't leave you significantly better off financially, is in itself not interesting, and results in you becoming time poor, so you have fewer hours to read, stroll in the park, meet with friends or watch interesting films on TV (all of which activities are free and accessible to the unemployed), how on earth can you be said to be better off doing it?

And then there's the option of enriching your life by doing voluntary work while unemployed, or studying.

So - if you were an MP and I was an unemployed person, how would you persuade me that I would be much happier cleaning out buses for 40 hours a week, than sitting at home reading the newspaper and listening to the radio?

I can kind of see where you are coming from OP but I suspect that being out of work does pull you down so people don't enrich their lives as you suggest they could. That also does also take us into the territory of should others (i.e. taxpayers) be paying for someone to choose to enjoy said enrichment?

From personal experience I have a very dynamic friend who has recently been made redundant, I can see even her being pulled down and drained by it.

I also have a relative who is late 50s and has been on benefits for some time. I have regularly suggested voluntary work, interests, etc but there is always an excuse. She seems to prefer to stay in, worry about her health and moan rather than do anything positive.

I may be wrong but some people (not all) do seem to sink into a negative mindset when on benefits which prevents them, not only returning to work but also achieving much else.

However there is also the possibility OP that you and I, being privileged enough not to have to live on benefits, may not have a very clear view on this. I have realised, through Mumsnet, that many people struggle far more in life than I have ever had to and it has broadened my knowledge and changed my opinions dramatically.

really, we have a good supportive family

tomhardyismydh no - and my cousin is a "he". Neither he nor wife have worked. Two DCs, and for one holiday they leave them with grandma, so they can have a rest.

I can see where your coming from but speaking as a family who's main breadwinner is on minimum wage (DH) and doing a fairly mundane job, working is a matter of pride and in taking responsability for ourselves rather than letting someone else pick up the tab. Please note this is in no way meant to be insulting to anyone who genuinely can't find work and is claiming benefits.

A jobs a job, I am struggling to handle the shame of having my income topped up with benefits due to my un-employability meaning I can't move from part time to full time work. I even got turned down for a job scrubbing toilets. So yes I would jump at the chance to clean out buses.

"If you live on your own then not working is very lonely. You can go days without seeing anybody and you lose your will to live"

I could see that would be true. You need to have some engagement in society to live a fulfilling life. My argument is that that engagement doesn't have to be in the form of paid work.

"How does doing poorly paid, repetitive work improve the quality of your life..."

By giving you a reason to get up in the morning. By setting a good example to your children. By allowing you interaction with other people rather than vegetating on a sofa on your own all day long. By giving you some work-experience that you can take to another, better paying job....

Are you deliberately thick, or do you have to work at it?

We'd all like more time to enjoy different pursuits, everyone that can should be making an effort to support themselves and their families.
At least we have minimum wage in this country and a benefits system and a 'free' NHS. However, all of these things are paid for by those who contribute to the tax system.
The benefits system is there to be used to help people, not to allow you to decide you are better than getting a particular job.

There are plenty of people on benefits who want to work, and a smaller minority who don't. The problem is that the Government is highlighting the minority a little too much. We should also come up with ways of persuading high earners to not avoid paying tax. There's more money lost there than is spent on people on benefits avoiding work.

I am currently on benefits because I am studying, I would do any job if I was not studying and feel a sense of achievement regardless. I have worked on production lines etc.
I think its a sense of aspiration that is missing. It costs nothing to learn and educate your self and often not as hard as people profess to gain new skills to improve employment opportunities.

"How does doing poorly paid, repetitive work improve the quality of your life..."

You are working for your pittance, less shame. No pressure to try and keep arm during the day when you can't afford the heating.

Also, great, interesting jobs don't fall in your lap. How many school leavers get the job of their dreams immediately? Or students? It rarely happens, most people will have worked in jobs they didn't really want to do, to get where they wanted to be. Or they are doing it.

Good post, Opus .

There needs to be some sort of incentive to get people into 'boring, poorly paid jobs' apparently some people do not have work ethics and are happy living off the rest of us. Some people are genuniely interested in working to get them out of the house and functioning normally and good for them.
You really can not be picky about jobs if you are unemployed.

Heres a thing, we own our own home, our mortgage is crippling us, our debts are crippling us, my DP works on average 50 hours a week (hes self employed) just to keep our heads above water, we are managing, only just and its stressfull and its making us both ill. It would be very easy for us to just say fuck it, hand the house keys over to the bank and walk away - we could then get a council house and a flat screen TV. And some days, some days i wonder why we don't do just that - im not sure why we don't.

I've been on benefits (we are actually on tax credits just now but it doesnt feel the same) and its bloody degrading, i think thats the answer. Right now though - it feels like a viable option.

I dont work right now - i do voluntary work here and there, i would much rather be in work - if i could work for my council house and benefits lifestyle then i would - if i could just earn enough for myself and DP to live on that amount of money and have no worries about debt and stupid mortgage payments to live in a house that is falling down around my ears. If i could just earn enough so that someone would come and fix my boiler on demand, put a new kitchen in every five years, paint the front door, fix the manky fence in the back garden. I would be very happy with that thankyou very much.

So for me, right now, id choose benefits because i have the grass is greener syndrome and ive had enough of the worry of having to provide for ourselves. Does that make sense?

bronze when I was on JSA (2years ago) my advisor said voluntary work can be permitted. You need to check the number of hours allowed, that you can still seek work actively around it (including getting to interviews) and can relinquish it as soon as a post comes up. It might be worth him checking to see if it's still the case.

I'm not picky yet I cannot get a job :(. I'm just useless :(.

Scholes My friend (don't know which benefits she and husband get, children grown and left home but pre-pension age) lives in a nice house bought and paid for before their business went under 10+years ago. They have just bought a brand new car for over £20k without taking credit so I can sympathise with your feelings about your cousin

"rather than letting someone else pick up the tab"

Tesco makes unbelievable profits yet the tax payer are still picking up the bill for subsidising half their full-time staff who aren't earning enough to feed and house their families.

Where's Tesco's sense of shame for not paying a living wage to their staff?

"I may be wrong but some people (not all) do seem to sink into a negative mindset when on benefits which prevents them, not only returning to work but also achieving much else."

I agree. Which is why it's such a crying shame that low cost adult education is disappearing so quickly. I personally like the idea that there should be a requirement to show you are engaged in some sort of process of personal development if you become unemployed, to reduce the likelihood of depression and long term reliance on the state. So I'm thinking - education and/or voluntary work.

of course engagement doesn't have to be in the form of paid work. Voluntary work is great fun; I have spent many nights and weekends stuffing bags, drawing up excel spreadsheets of rotas for many an NCT nearly-new sale so that people can sell their second hand stuff and argue over a Thomas trike! lol

But I do that on my own time - I have a full-time paid job otherwise. If I didn't have to work (because in an ideal world my DH would have a job that pays lots and lots!) then I'd still do the voluntary work because sitting at home with/without my DCs would drive me mad/madder?!!

The point is, work is necessary so that the benefits system/NHS work for the rest of society.

I'm sure many people would rather not work if they didn't have to. I've no problem with people who would rather take casual strolls and indulge in armchair pursuits. As long as I don't have to fund it.

I have an afternoon off and in a minute I'm going out for a late lunch with a guy I only know through work. Through him I have met loads of interesting people. On Saturday someone from work is having a party and I'm invited with my kids and my kids' friends.

At work it can be boring sometimes, but it matters to me that I am talking to adults and adding to my CV. I am always looking out for opportunities that arise at work to do something a bit more interesting.

This helps my kids in turn to see the social benefits of work. It means that more people in my town know me as a hard-working dependable person and that is good for my family. If I ever was in a position of being out of work and seeking a new job I would hope that would stand me in good stead.

I want my kids to aspire to be in work, not on benefits.

But I can see where the OP is coming from. I do not aspire for my kids to be in minimum wage crap jobs. However, isn't it my responsibility to make sure this doesn't happen? I don't really expect or want the government to raise my kids for me.

Manatee Thank you, I'm quite excited! That's the first time anybody has noticed one of my posts. Was beginning to feel a bit invisible! :)

"I'm not picky yet I cannot get a job . I'm just useless "

I'm sure you're not useless xstitch.