AIBU to ask a sensible Q?

[troisgarcons]

I always said I would never canvas opinons on the internet BUT this is bugging me.

This is backing onto a convo at work: SAHP want to be recognised as a valid and important role; the 'H' indicates 'homemaker', so if you are SAHP would you think it reasonable (on work days) for your partner to do chores? (excluding bathtime and stories) if so, would you as a SAHP be prepared to go into you partners office (with children in tow) and do a couple of hours filing ?

Sorry, xposted - yes - he's "told" me that's what he expects me to do - whether or not it happens is another matter! still working on having #2 though - which should give me a few more years.
I'm making him sound a lot worse than he is - which isn't really fair on him - he's not that bad, really, just like an untrained teenager (which is exactly right as his mum gave up on him and his brother when they hit about 13 - in fairness to her she had a very ill DH on her hands who died when DH was 18 so I can see why she didn't bother and just did it all herself but it's a bit rubbish from my POV)

My DH has teenager tendencies too but I don't let him get away with it and in fairness he's very magnanimous about my nagging helpful comments.

no I don't let him get away with much either (despite my whinging on here) - but he mostly treats it as a game, damn him! Mostly by making him get up and do what he has neglected to do, rather than just doing it myself and then nagging about it later, or seething quietly. It's a work in progress - we've been working at it for 1.5y since we've been in Australia, so still not that long. :)

Im a SAHM. DH usually works 52 hours a week over 6 days in a physically demanding job.
I don't find it hard work keeping on top of the chores and don't expect DH to do any chores or cooking in the house. If I ask him to do something, he will do it without complaining but generally there is nothing for him to do as I get it all done during the day.
He does put the bin out for collection once a week and will wash dishes (we have a dishwasher so there's usually not much washing up) and does any DIY jobs.
I might need to point out I only have one child, if I had more it may be a different story!
When DH is at home, he's happy to share the care of DD but I still do most of the bathing, dressing, preparing her meals etc.
9 times out of 10 it is me who gets up in the night with DD too.
I don't feel hard done by and I have enough time to rest during the day while DD is napping or whatever.
I do agree that caring for a child is more tiring and demanding than working a full day and it's true that it's 24/7 so you are effectively 'on call' all the time.

Being a SAHP should include housework. Having small kids creates an unbelievable amount of mess, as does their mealtimes and bathtimes. And an incredible amount of clothes washing.

If you have chosen not to earn and to look after the kids, then you should do all the work that entails which includes keeping the house shipshape.

You shouldn't expect your earning partner to clean and tidy as soon as they walk through the door after a day at the office.

"If you have chosen not to earn and to look after the kids, then you should do all the work that entails which includes keeping the house shipshape. "

so what if you have chosen to 'earn' like your partner? who deals with the unbelievable amount of mess from teh kids then? because that mess still exists, washing still needs done, meals still need cooked and house still needs cleaned but apparently an earning person should be expected to come in and tidy afet a day at teh office. so who does it then when you are both working full time if neither of you should be expected to tidy afetr working?

shouldn't be expected.

I think it's reasonable for the working parent to do 1/2 of what's needed when they get home, unreasonable to expect to come in and do nothing.

booyhoo obviously if you both earn then that's a different matter.

That's not the question OP was asking, and not the one I was addressing.

As a SAHP you should be governed by your conscience IMO and try to get as much housework done as is reasonable in between bringing up your children and seeing other adults (which is vital for your sanity) and doing things which stimulate your brain.

What you shouldn't do is give in to the working partner's desire to be waited on hand and foot on day's when he/she is not in the office. Ie make the beds and empty the bins for everyone on days when your working partner (and children) are busy out of the house, but expect everyone to help out with that stuff on weekends and holidays.

One difference is that if your child goes out to childcare, it's not so messy in the house. So, the house is pretty much how you left it in the morning. Lots of working parents also have cleaners for that reason, or send out ironing as they don't have time or the energy to do several hours housekeeping after work. I would if I had the money, but I don't, so I do do it all after work myself, but my house is quite messy and not kept to a great standard as a result.

I do see SAHM as having a 'caring for the home' role, including childcare and housework and general household organization, doing jobs, shopping and so on. That doesn't mean the other person should do nothing, and it should be equal on weekends, but seriously, no housekeeping when you are home all day? So many times I read about how if you costed what a SAHM does then it would be very expensive. People ususally include a cleaner, ironing etc. If actually you ditch it all, and only do childcare, then it becomes a not very good economic deal really IMO, which is one reason I wouldn't get a nanny, as I don't think in an eight-hour day you need to be constantly attending to children so much you can't put a load of washing on.

but amatuerish, the work still exists so whether both parents work or not so why should it all fall to one parent who is working longer hours (never mind the damage to any career and pension) to do it all? both parents created teh chidlren, why does that mean ALL housework falls to one parent? the partner who works still creates housework whether there are children or not so why is it the SAHPARENT's duty to clean up after anotehr adult jsut because they choose to care for tehir children at home?

"booyhoo obviously if you both earn then that's a different matter. "

so it is teh money factor that determines who does more housework?

well how about this. i am about to register as a childminder. this means i will be earning for (hopefully) 9/10 hours per day. but i will be at home. so do i get to drop all housework at 6pm because i will have been earning all day?

"but seriously, no housekeeping when you are home all day? "

i dont think anyone is saying that.

if you are caring for your children at home then it is reasonable to have to cook and tidy up all mess created during the day.

How much housework is there though? I have a pretty cushy number here I think.

I do all of the housework (i.e. washing and cooking and vacuuming etc) during DS2's nap at the moment. But I have low standards so just keep the house at a dull roar of mess.

DH is out of the house a minimum of 12 hours, so no I don't expect him to do any housework at all through the week (except emptying the dishwasher, which I hate hate hate doing). I do expect him to not add to it, so putting his plate in the kitchen, making sure the sink is clean after he shaves, not leaving things for me to pick up.

He does breakfast shift here with the kids so gets baby up, cooks brekkie for all of us, makes my coffee, helps DS1 with uniform if necessary that sort of thing.

The only housework we have on the weekend is tidying the kitchen after food prep and I sort out the uniforms for the week, everything else is done through the week. He probably spends more time with the kids than I do on the weekends and that includes the grunt work like nappies.

When I am working outside the home we do of course split things more evenly, but I have the time to do it all because I don't need/want to work.

I still have time for the gym, lunches out, coffee with friends, playing at the park, watching TV, MN through the week and it means we can chill on the weekend.

Amateurish I would agree with you that the SAHP should tidy up after the children during the day. It would be very unreasonable for the SAHP to leave trails of dirty clothes, washing and toys and expect the WOHP to clean it all up when they come home (except in situations where the children or parent are ill). However, I don't think it's unreasonable for the SAHP to expect some level of help when the WOHP comes home - such as putting the children to bed, cooking the dinner/cleaning up after the dinner, taking clothes in from the line. I wouldn't expect my DH to come home and do hoovering or to clean the bathroom as these are big jobs that take time, but I do expect him to help with DS and to tidy up after himself. Also, I don't ever do his laundry and he cooks every evening (by choice).

I have a SAH friend who believes her job is simply to look after the children and uses the 'I am not a housekeeper' argument. She is very proud of the fact that does NO housework in the day, even though her children are both at school because that is her time off. When her DH comes home from work at six o'clock, she expects him to split all the chores with her, including the washing and hoovering.

While admiring the sheer cheek of it, I have to say that a) Her DH is getting fed up with having the rough end of the bargain and b)The house is really dirty - I have to scrub my children's extremities when we have visited.

Bonsoir - I do agree with what you say.

I also think that it is reasonable for the earning partner to have a period of relaxation on workdays after they have come home. Even if the SAHP still has chores to do.

Personally, on the days I do work I'm out of the door before the kids are up and home after they have gone to bed. I would not expect to have to then help out cleaning or clearing the mess that the kids create during the day.

BooyHoo - Allinabinbag put it much better than I could.

"I also think that it is reasonable for the earning partner to have a period of relaxation on workdays after they have come home. Even if the SAHP still has chores to do."

does the not earning SAHP not need relaxtion time?

It doesn't matter if your "busy" time is spent earning money or looking after childen or doing the washing - each partner should get equal time to spend relaxing.

I think your attitude is fine and fair enough as long as your partner agrees with it Amateurish. It wouldn't suit me because I have a baby (5 months) who rarely naps (I'm posting loads at the moment as he is currently having a very very rare nap) and who gets up very early (5am this morning - yawwwwn) so by the time DH gets home I'm very tired and desperately need a break. I don't expect DH to start mopping the floors but I do expect him to take DS from me so I can at least make a cup of tea and relax for half an hour before the dinner onslaught begins. To be fair my DH has a relatively easy job and is usually home by 5.30 so he doesn't mind rolling his sleeves up as soon as he gets in the door. If he had a very demanding job with longer hours it would probably be a different situation.

Christina - your friend really is taking the piss there though.
Not surprised her DH is a bit peed off.

Having just defended my DH, I'll now say how slack he is about doing anything without being pushed:
when we went to the UK last year (DS and I), he didn't do a stroke of washing up for 3 weeks - his mum did it all.
This time around I asked her not to do it, so he would get some idea of how living as an adult works.
He did the washing up - fair enough - but when we got home after a 24h flight, I had to change the bedding on DS's bed, hoover the mouseshit out from under the bed, clean the floor in the room before he could go to bed, because DH had done SFA about the mice he had seen running in and out of DS's room. Before we went away I warned him we had a serious mouse problem and asked him to put bait everywhere while we were away and DS wasn't around to pick it up - he ignored me because he "didn't believe it was a problem". Until 2 days before we got back, when he finally realised but left it too late to do anything.

He didn't clear up any mouseshit - the house stank when we got back - they had even gone into DS's bed (hence needing to change the bedding) and I had to buy more mouse bait the next day and find safe places to put it where DS can't find it; all because DH couldn't be arsed to deal with any of it while I was away.

Not THAT fucks me right off.

Not Now

The only "shoulds" should be that both partners feel happy and that things between them are fair, however they choose to organise them.

Grr that would seriously piss me off too thumbwitch. As many people on MN have said, one of the worst aspects of having a teenager-like partner is the fact that you have to keep on top of everything. They'll do things if they're forced but it's you who has to notice everything and plan everything which is very tiring and annoying.

In fairness to my DH he is excellent at planning trips away - booking flights, hotels, organising logistics etc - and he is almost entirely in charge of our house move. I am useless at that kind of stuff so I'm willing to accept that I might have to pick up more of the slack in the housework because he picks up the slack in technical/financial stuff. However when it comes to DS I insist on help as I just can't do it on my own.