To think a friend should not spend half her family savings on bariatric (obesity) surgery

[pingu2209]

My friend is very overweight (as am I) and she has spent the last ten to fifteen years losing and gaining the same 5 stone on a variety of diets. Each time she loses the weight she puts it all back on plus extra. I would now say she is at least 8 stone overweight.

Today she told me that she has decided that she no longer believes she can keep weight off that she loses on a diet so she has booked to have a gastric bypass privately. Apparently her GP surgery were unable to help.

She came to me as a friend and as her friend I don't want to judge her as it is her decision. She said that her BMI was 45 and as she has 2 young children she is concerned for her health. All of that I fully understand, but she is spending half of the family savings paying for it and her husband's job is very insecure.

Am I unreasonable in my concerns? Perhaps I am just green with envy as I will watch her lose weight and still be very overweight myself!

she should go for it. whats the point in having savings if she may not live very long or have co-morbidities due to her weight. she will be added years to her life for the benefit of herself and her family which is worth more than any amount of money.

Totally agree with squeaky, well said.
I think you can't blame anyone else for overeating but yourself.

What's more important than health?

QOD - and he needed a TV programme to tell him his bum was smelly because he didn't wipe it properly? .

Chocolate, I'd argue.

I lost 11.5 stone through having a bypass- my excess skin is really not that bad. Like your friend, I did it for health reasons and although I do have some excess skin, I can live with it and have no plans to have it removed.

The best thing about it is that I can be normal- something I had never been before- I can play with my kids, go up and down the stairs, go to the gym, go on bike rides with my kids, sit on chairs without them breaking, wipe my own arse, the list goes on.

With a BMI of 45, it is unlikely she will get it on the NHS although it does depend on individual PCTs.

I am so glad I had it done, so is my dr- all my bloods are completly normal now- I was diabetic before, had sleep apnoea- had to sleep with a machine, was a heart attack waiting to happen. I have saved the NHS thousands and added years to my lifespan.

Would do it again in a heartbeat.

I also think I had an eating disorder, had counselling for it, tbh I still have the eating disorder-still cant control my eating- but my tiny stomach controls it for me- the battle still goes on in my head but at least Im a damn sight healthier for my kids and will hopefully be around to see them into adulthood.

Haven't read all the posts but just to reply on 'should she spend half her family savings?' I would imagine her family would say that they would rather have her alive and with them than any amount of money.

Johnthepong - it's an emotive surgery isn't it? Nothing else quite compares. You can't magic up a new nose, or bigger boobs but technically nobody needs this surgery. Although my surgeon is busier than ever and it's increasing in popularity. I don't really think it's a lazy way out either. It's a lifechanging commitment. Still don't regret my band though!

I think it's necessary for her. Do tell her to check out the various surgeries. Many people love the sleeve. You still have your pyloric or outlet valve and they don't mess with bypassing intestines. Many have trouble with the band, it can erode into stomach and has to be filled/unfilled. Lots of advice on obesity help.com, where most people rave about their kind of surgery.

You're just jealous.
It's really got nothing to do with you.

OP - what are you actually concerned about? Really?

Embarrassing bodies tonight was about gastric bands, what an eye opener :(

Her cash, her call ...

Yabu. It's not all roses, say I, who has a band. Bypass surgery is very different and the reason I chose the band over other surgeries is that once its taken out, it can't be put back! There are of course emotional issues associated with overeating. No quick fix for those! I lost 8 stone, got my band loosened and decided to go on will-power alone. Hence I find myself 2 years down the line 3 stone up again and have just got it re-tightened. Worth thinking about because you can't get a bypass redone. Carnie Wilson (?) Wrote a book 'still hungry' after her bypass and swapped her food addiction for alcohol, not pretty!

It's her money, her choice.

YABU.

Good for her... if she's tried and failed, and can do this, then why not? It could save her life.

And it is NOT the easy way out... I had a vertical sleeve gastrectomy (not a band or bypass, more natural - was overweight due to steroids, not overeating), and it's been a huge help. I have to work at it every day.

yanbu.

She is taking a huge risk, her health must be really bad at that weight, and having major surgery when you are that unfit carries a significant risk.

I think I would feel different if she had managed to keep off some weight herself, as now, what is she going to do, will she be one of those people who liquidise mars bars?

If, as you say, it is a mental health problem, obviously an operation won't even sort it. You would (both) need really good mental health care, and start talking to a psychologist/therapist/psychiatrist FIRST to get to the ROOT of the problem.

You mention anorexics, well, they do not have surgery to expand their tummy, they get treated by a psychiatrist.

Still, her money, her choice. but as a friend I'd recommend tackling the root of the problem, both of you. What do you think?

'what is she going to do, will she be one of those people who liquidise mars bars?'

If she did this with a bypass she'd vomit it all up. I could do this, with my procedure, but she couldn't.

OP YANBU - there is more than a 'small' risk of complications. Gastric bypass surgery is major stuff. As a surgeon I see the massive problems that obese people have when having any type of surgery. They are very difficult to ventilate , wounds heal poorly etc If bariatric surgery goes well fine if not consequences can be disastrous. Months in intensive care with teams of staff struggling to roll patients to prevent pressure sores . I also see patients who have had private surgery coming back to the NHS to pick up the pieces - malnutrition. Vomiting, abdominal pain, gallstones, reflux .... Bariatric surgery should be a last resort.

Fabby, last I heard you were still on the way down with about a stone to go and were living off Jacobs Cream Crackers. You may have willpower, but you don't have a lot else to offer anyone by way of advice.

There are a few other myths to dispell in your posts as well - a bariatric patient simply eats less because they have to. In the same way their body will get less if they use willpower to eat less. They can exercise through this process, in fact they will be encouraged to do so - its not just a case of have the surgery, never think about it again. There is a diet and stages of food reintroduction that go alongside it.

Loose skin is more to do with age and skin elasticity - speed of loss will not give you a get out of jail free card. Toning will help, in that the less fat you have on your body the less flabby your skin will be but you can still get the crepey wrinkled effect and if there is a lot of skin then it might hang.

But if the OP's woman is concerned about her health as opposed to her appearance, this will not be a deal breaker. She will still be a lot healthier than before, as long as she does not suffer some of the complications that people who have bariatric surgery can have, like malnourishment etc, though most problems can be prevented or treated.

Its not an easy way out, there is still a lot of work to be done.

I don't have personal experience of it, but I know a lot about gastric bands as my friend has had one since 2005 and I've seen her journey and pitfalls along the way. Gastric bypass is slightly different again and a slightly more full-on version I think but I don't think there is the maintenance of getting the band filled etc though there is probably a fair bit of aftercare involved.

Fabby, come and tell us in 5 years how you are doing and then you can lecture people confidently.

doesn't sound like you're concerned about her bank balance so much as being left behind. it can be hard if you've had a relationship where you're both very overweight and then someone makes the change. you say she'll lose weight and you won't, like you have no control over that. but you do! don't be envious because you think she's got the easy route and you're stuck behind, you can do it too! i'm in the process of losing lots of weight myself atm so i know how hard it is, i'm not glibly saying 'just eat less' like it'd never occurred to you before. it is a choice though xxxx

as for your friend, i can see why the NHS don't think surgery is right for her, sounds like she desperately needs to sort the head bit out, not the stomach size. just because she loses weight through surgery doesn't guarantee she will keep it off this time, if she's repeatedly lost large amounts of weight and gained it back, thats the problem she needs to address, not the size of her stomach. imo of course.

OP, as for you, and admiring your honesty on this, why don't you try to ALSO get healthier, and start shaping up yourself a bit?

Not a starvation diet, but just eating "normal portions" and exercising a bit. Go for a walk today, and have a nice but healthy lunch to start with.

Wouldn't it be great if you achieve the same results through your own strength of will? The "new you" could start right here right now.

Good morning all.

In response to some of your comments and questions. Being seriously overweight - anyone who is stones and stones and stones overweight - has a mental health issue. Their relationship with food is more complex than just having no self control or will power. To be on a diet for 6 months and lose 6 stone shows that she does have will power. However, she is only human, and can't diet forever, for the rest of her life. She slips (Christmas or holiday etc) and then ends up putting on the weight plus more.

Anyone of you who's attitude is, she has no self control, really has no idea.

I do not believe anyone has weight loss surgery without first having been on most of the diets on the planet. Many of them will have lost huge amounts of weight. However, once they resume 'normal' eating they put all the weight back on. Which is what happened to my friend over and over again - and me, to be frank.

It is not that 'diets' don't work. They do. They just don't work for life.

8 years ago she was 4 stone overweight. She lost it all with Weight Watchers and then put it all back on plus another stone. This is all within a 9 month period.

6 years ago she was 5 stone overweight. She lost it all with Slimming World and then put it all back on plus another stone or more. Again this was all within a 9 month period.

4 years ago she was 8 stone overweight. She lost 5 1/2 stone (so didn't reach target) in 5 months with Ligher Life. She then put on 6 stone in 3 months after quitting Lighter Life. She quit Lighter Life as Christmas threw her off her flow.

The NHS in our area will not carry out the operation. Apparently a BMI of 45 isn't large enough. Even if she was bigger and qualified, there is at least an 18 month waiting list. Also, she said she particularly wants a gastric vertical sleeve. But the NHS would most likely give her a gastric bypass.

As I said at the beginning of the thread, she is now at least 8 stone overweight. My friend said that whilst she knows she can lose weight again by healthy eating etc. And as she is so overweight she will lose a lot of weight quickly, she also knows that the likelihood is that eventually she will put all the weight back on. She told me she just couldn't face yet another 6 months of dieting, losing weight, feeling great, etc, only to put it all back on the following 4-6 months. It is sole destroying.

She knew she was hugely overweight and ummed and ahhhhed over whether to go back on a diet to lose it all - but she logically worked out that there was little point. She needed an option that would mean once she lost the weight, she couldn't stuff herself again.

They were going to have a conservatory built, and she feels guilty that the money will instead go on her. However, her children will not only get to have her into their adulthood, but also, whilst they are children, she will be a lot fitter to be able to the things they want. Bless her, she listed all the things she has put off over the past 4-5 years because she was too big - cheap flights for cheap city breaks, roller coaster rides, anything that requires a life jacket (speed boats etc). Mind you, they won't have the money for those things now!

As for me, I am on a diet with her (again). She wants to lose a bit of weight and start to 'diet' (cut out crap) so that it isn't such a shock to her when she does have the operation. I am more than happy to help her out and support her. It helps me too as I definately need to lose weight. However, I am sceptical for me. I too know I will lose weight but I also resign myself to the fact I am highly likely to put it all back on again. I would have the operation for all the reasons my friend is. I just don't have the cash.

"But it is not a mental health issue, it is a lack of self control and will power"

Squeaky et al - you say that in relation to being hugely overweight (as opposed to a bit overweight).

Do you think people who self-harm and have scars all over their arms and legs lack self control and the will power just not to self-harm? Is there nothing more to it than simply lacking the willpower not to self-harm, or is there a deeper mental health issue that makes them want to self-harm in the first place? After all, nobody really wants to have scars all over their body. And I think very few people want to be hugely overweight either.

What do you think about self-harmers?

"I do not believe anyone has weight loss surgery without first having been on most of the diets on the planet. Many of them will have lost huge amounts of weight. However, once they resume 'normal' eating they put all the weight back on. Which is what happened to my friend over and over again - and me, to be frank.

It is not that 'diets' don't work. They do. They just don't work for life."

This is your (and her) problem. You see a 'diet' as a short-term way of eating in order to lose weight. Of course you will put the weight back on if you go back to eating 'normally'. What you need to do is learn to eat differently. The way you eat on a diet like Weight Watchers is how you should be eating long-term - i.e. monitoring your intake and ensuring you are getting a balanced diet. When you have lost all the weight you want to, you simply increase your intake until you stop losing weight.

Things like Christmas, which you have said lead you both to break your diets, do not lead to 6 stone weight gain. Eat everything and anything you want all day long and go back to eating properly with restraint the next day and you'll stay on track.

Keeping weight off is simple - you don't go back to the habits which made you gain the weight in the first place. It is a matter of willpower - you may both have the willpower needed to lose the weight but you clearly lack the will to keep it off.