My ex driving three year old in front seat of car with active air bags!

[JOGE]

Hi,
My ex took me to court last year for increased contact. FYI (he has always seen his daughter three times a week, this is now every other weekend, tea in the week. Long weekend Spring and week holiday in Summer) He didn't get what he wanted.
A couple of days later he informed me that he was going to start driving our daughter in the front of his old sports car with active airbags.
I was devastated as this is not illegal so I can do nothing to stop him.
I have tried to appeal to him and wrote a letter explaining how dangerous this is, I included many articles from numerous sources with facts to back up my concerns. He has refused to listen.
We are due back in court in a couple of weeks as now wants seven weeks holiday.
I would really like the next contact order to state that he can't drive our daughter in the front seat of a car until she is older.
Am I being unreasonable? All I want is for him to sell his sports car and buy something that is safer for transporting a child.
Any advice would be very welcome.

Why do we even have airbags as standard if they are so unsafe?

I'm going to go to a garage and have mine removed as it's mostly my 5 yo dd who sits in the front of my car, I had no idea it wasn't safe I only knew about the rear facing seats, I'm expecting my second dc in sep and was going to get it removed by then anyway as I want her in the front where I can see to her as I drive a lot in the daytime

Can you ask if he would agree to have his airbag removed?

I have asked but he refuses he gave some excuse that it will invalidate his insurance however this is impossible as most new cars have the ability to de activate the airbag when a child is in the front.

I thought it was quite well known that children shouldn't sit in the front seat of a car (in either front or rear facing car seats) if there's an airbag fitted but from other people's responses I guess this isn't the case. I'm not sure that bringing it up in court is the best way to deal with it though, but then I'd expect any reasonable parent to listen to the argument/read the information available and reach the conclusion that they should disable the airbag. I hope that you manage to resolve the issue with him without too much more animosity.

I don't think you can have them removed as cars have to be made with airbags as standard. They can be switched off though, and the manufacturers instructions usually state that they must be turned off if a child is in the front seat.

I think you need to let this drop. On the more important issue of staying contact, and since the two of you are at least talking, can't you come to an arrangement for progressing contact to a decent level? Even at three, the courts can order a 50/50 share of holidays. If the two of you agree a plan that works up to that level over the next year or two, it will be better for the child and you can get it stamped as a consent order.
Alternatively, he may get it by steps which will involve the two of you returning to court every few months to haggle; necessary in some cases but far from ideal.
If it is a fresh application made after April 6 this year, there is a P.A.P.(pre-action protocol) in force; you will both be expected to attend a mediation assessment before making an application to the court. You might get some assistance there in negotiating something.

I wouldn't let this drop! Maybe it would have been better to not include any info about your contact order in the OP as several paople seem more fixated on how much contact your ex has than your actual question.

I agree with IgnoringTheChildren.

This is a safety issue. The background is relevant inasmuch as it illustrates the fact that the man would sooner put his child at risk than listen to the op's (IMO valid) concerns.

Thank you IgnoringTheChildren and 3littlefrogs I totally agree. it was the first time I have posted anything and was completely surprised and a little disappointed by some comments. I clearly went into too much detail regarding ex but wanted to explain that his choice was as a direct result of him not getting the contact he wanted through the courts. Prior to this he would use his mums car with rear seats to transport daughter. When you have a child it is the parents responsibility to ensure you keep them as safe as possible. I don't mean that they should be wrapped in cotton wool. By why take risks when you don't need to. For anyone in doubt as to the safety issues regarding air bags and young children there are plenty of facts available on the Internet if you wish to look. My ex has a car over ten years old with outdated air bag technology the new air bags are much better as can determine weight and position of passenger to determine speed of deployment. I take the safety of my children very seriously. Thank you for all your comments

Am amazed anyone has managed to buy a carseat without seeing notices about airbags, I think they are on the cars themselves too. He is blackmailing/punishing you by threatening the life of your child. Is he planning to remove smoke alarms from his home and buy a vicious dog as well?

Am amazed anyone has managed to buy a carseat without seeing notices about airbags, I think they are on the cars themselves too. He is blackmailing/punishing you by threatening the life of your child. Is he planning to remove smoke alarms from his home and buy a vicious dog as well?

I am not inclined to take the netdoctors site as the truth as reading through it, a few things are at odds with other advice. For example, it says a second hand carseat is safe as long as you examine it for cracks and damage. Aren't we all told repeatedly that stress to a carseat can be invisible? And for that reason, you can never trust a second hand seat?

you have to beware of articles about airbags whicgh come from America. For some reason (perhaps collective insanity) Americans won't use their seatbelts, and they have bigger, more powerful airbags to work on their own. Euro airbags are smaller as they are only supposed to stop you flailing about when you are already held by your seatbelt. They are therefore less inclined to crush small children.

That said, I am all in favour of switching them off as recommended if you have a small child in a rear-facing seat. since that is not what they are designed for.

My airbag cannot be turned off so I don't let my 4 year old DD sit in the front. My 10 year old DD rarely sits in the front because airbags are designed for adults not children.

I didn't know that you could get then turned off at a garage but I just put my DDs in the back. It also saves fighting by DD1 (age 14) and DD2 as DD1 is the only DC big enough to not suffer (potentially) from serious harm by the airbag going off.

YANBU! I would not have bought a car that had an airbag that couldn't be turned off if I had to use the front seats for my young DDs. Your ex is being a prat and endangering his child's life. Not sure what you can do though because it seems (according to other posters) that he has the right to put your DD at risk like this. The poor man obviously has to have a sports car to drive around in.

I agree with your post about American airbags and have seen the evidence to support this, however euro airbags are designed for adults and as such are not safe for children. I believe when a child has no voice it is the parents responsibility to be responsible.
My friend had an accident when a fox ran out in front of the car in the aftermath she sustained serious facial injurys requiring plastic surgery and her partner lost his finger when he tried to grab the steering wheel. Both of these injurys were caused by the airbag uk spec airbags whilst they are proven to save life's in adults they also put young children and adults of short stature at more risk

yanbu

whilst not illegal, the airbags can still kill your DD

Id go ballistic, and would find it very very difficult to allow anyone to travel like that with my child too.

Cordyblue I posted that link as a guide rather than fact. As I knew a child who died aged 4 sitting in a car seat in the front of a car BECAUSE of the airbag I was merely linking to that paragraph, rather than cut and paste it.

With regard to second hand car seats - I am using (albeit only when I am in the UK) the car seat that was used by my almost 18 year old daughter for my 2yo DD. Is that wrong too? IMO if you know where the car seat has come from and by whom it has been used, I really can see no problem with using a second hand one myself...

Are you sure you are not just keen for him to sell his sports car to get at him? If your child was properly strapped in with the seat as far back as possible the air-bag wouldn't touch her anyway. If your ex started dictating that you should sell your car and buy another one you would probably, quite rightly, state that it was none of his business.

I wouldnt be so stupid as to put any child in the front of a car with an active airbag. I couldnt care less if he drove a Ferrari just not with my daughter In it. I have every right to try and protect my daughters safety.

Joge - unfortunately (and I'm not having a go, honest) since the judge has decided that your ex is a suitable competent person who is able to have access to your DD unsupervised, and since what he is doing is NOT illegal, then I am sorry but you are going to have to suck it up.

Imagine how you would feel if your ex refused to return your DD on the grounds that he did not feel the car you were picking her up in was not suitable as he'd been involved in a crash in the same car, and had read up on that particular model and decided he didn't like it.

That is ridiculous I have never stopped contact nor would I
If you took time to read my replies you will see that he made this decision after we went to court.

Rock I know you did, and as a guide it's fine, but as fact I immediately saw things I can find links to to prove are incorrect, for example the second hand carseat thing, that was all I was saying. But of course your example is fine - presumably your family would tell you if they had been in an accident...

FWIW, I know someone whose relative died skiing. I still ski, and I allow my children from age 2 to do the same. I know someone whose relative died from a tractor related injury and yet I'll allow my BIL to scoop up my children in his tractor cab as I personally think they are massively safer inside a tractor cab than on a farmyard with a tractor reversing. I read that the owner and inventor of the segways died on his segway, I'm allowing my oldest child to have a segway party. People die doing horse riding. I allow my child to canter on a pony and even (gasp) do jumping. I know people die crossing the road, riding their bikes, etc. I know there are safety measures in place (for example, hard hats, seatlbelts, safety teaching, guidelines) and it's INCREDIBLY easy to say do everything by the book, make no unnecessary risks, take all precautions. But sometimes, you have to make an educated risk assessment of all the dangers.

FWIW, the reason why my own daughter occasionally travels in the front is because she undoes her seatbelt. If she's next to me, I can prevent that happening with a glare and a distraction. We have had two years of preventing her from ondoing her seatbelt - every single safety device known to man has been ordered and tried, as well as several expensive carseats. By being in the front, with the seat as far back as it can go, yes, she is some more danger than the back but SO MUCH more safer in the front with her belt done up and correct than in the back undoing it for fun and giggling when I am doing 70 down the motorway.

I would never do it if it were illegal, and choose not to do it when I have a choice (basically somebody else in the car to help distract) but it is not illegal and I still stand my my early answer that the OP is being very unreasonable in wanting her ex to conform by her standards.

I'm American and use a seatbelt as do all my family. My SUV is 8 years old and has a button to disable passenger air bag, which I did when my dog was riding there. Cops give tickets for not wearing seatbelts. I don't think a child is supposed to sit up front until they are a certain height.

Laws vary by states. In Tennessee, rules include: Children ages 4 through 8 who are less than 4?9? in height must be transported in a belt positioning booster seat system in the rear seat.

Older GC live in TN so I looked up their regulations.

I would not let a child go with parent who would not put child in appropriate child seat in rear. I'd say, "take me to court". There are probably websites devoted to car seat safety with stories of children who died because of unsafe seating. I'd do a presentation for the court.

Now if all the people riding motorcycles would buy some helmets...........

Yes but he's going back to court you said, and you said that you want the court order to state that he can't drive your daughter in his sports car.

You can't do that if he's deemed a safe and responsible parent to care for your child unsupervised.

The point I was making - how would you like it if he did the same to you? Can't you see the point I'm making - you are unfortunately not going to get anywhere with this. What he is doing is legal and he's allowed to care for his daughter.

My ex does things I can't stand. In the beginning I asked him to stop doing xyz, it just wound me up like a spring and stopped me moving on, I obsessed about them being not cared for like I would, dumped on anyone who would keep them, him letting them sit in the front of the car. But I had to let it go and move on. he won't parent like I do, but then I don't parent like he does.

Give and take is the best solution if possible.

If you genuinely believe that your ex is incapable of parenting and caring for your daughter in a safe and appropriate manner then you need to move to supervised contact in a contact centre or similar.

If you don't, then you have got to let him get on with it. It won't be how you do it, but nor is how you parent how he does it. Doesn't make you right and him wrong, or him right and you wrong. Just makes you different.

Cordy thank you for your response! I agree - when I was 14 my PE teacher was killed on our ski trip - but that hasn't stopped me going or letting my children go. Risks are there in so many things that we choose to do. My DS was also a seatbelt undoer, but he's 14 and when he was doing it I didn't have a car with an airbag so he could sit in the front with me.

It IS illegal to have a rear facing seat in the front of the car where the air bag has NOT been deactivated. But general advice seems to be that those children who MUST be in the front should, by law, be in an appropriate seat up to the age of 12 or 135cm tall. If those criteria are not met it's illegal.

I think because I knew child who died as a result of an airbag (and she was on a booster seat, so perfectly legal - even before it was the law) I will just never take that risk with any of mine. Obviously my older three fight to sit in the front now, but they're all my height and taller. But DD3 can sit it the back for the next 10 years at least, or certainly not before she's reached the right height.