To think the high levels of anxiety and depression we experience is down to loss of community?

[joogle]

As in humans are 'designed' to live in communities/tribes and nowadays a lot of us live very solitary lives, getting a large portion of our input from the internet or the telly. I guess this is also why mumsnet does so well, our own cyber community.

I reckon the lack of social interaction (and generally just being around others and extended family) is responsible for the rise in depression and anxiety, especially affecting people when they need their tribe the most, i.e. post natal women and the elderly.

Is this an unreasonable conclusion and if not what can people do to minimise the isolation apart from joining a commune?

though cross-border comparisons seem a bit weak - the diagnostic system in each country is v. different.

And on top of that how do you factor in countries where you can buy anti depressants over the counter without a prescription. Would those who self diagnose and self treat still get counted ?

Wouldn't the varying levels of social stigma regarding mental health also impact the numbers being prepared to go to the doc in the first place ?

Depression is close to 25% per year in the UK, but is much lower in other countries - below 10% in Germany and Spain.

Apparently its very closely related to the level of inequality in a society, and the values that allow inequality to thrive; valueing material possesions and wealth highly, allowing money to determine social status, causing distress to those who dont have much.

It creates bitterness and shame, envy and fear. This results in low levels of trust and weaker community life across the entire society.

The data on this was collected by the World Health Organisation, and therefore is consistent and comparable across countries.

Sorry that should be

The data on this was collected by the World Health Organisation, and therefore is consistent and comparable across countries.

the French classified themslves as 'less happy' - not more depressed as such...

i really don't see how any kind of study can eliminate cross-border differences.

even what 'depressed' is varies across borders.

Yes, I'd agree, Eggy. In Germany for instance, lots of people will 'admit' "psychological difficulties" or "nervous exhaustion" and will be treated for these conditions rather than "depression" which is still widely seen as "a bit pathetic sad".

I don't see how this kind of information could ever be gathered without bias, even by the WHO.

Having said that, I do see how there are lots of social problems here that will no doubt add to poor mental well-being.

erm - but in Germany 40-million odd live in a second world country, and there is also a large disenfranchised immigrant population (more so than the UK: even second or third gen 'gastarbeiter' were only granted the vote in 1998 (? exact date) ) and Spain was a dictatorship up until 1970...

i am not sure, but i think employers may have more access to medical records in Germany (which would deffo put you off getting a dx.)

i think comparisons of this kind are a bit rubbish really.

Well, that's my point - comparisons are rubbish.
And, no, employers don't have access to med records without consent from the patient.
I think the way 'nationality' and thereby 'right to vote' is defined in different countries (blood line vs birth place) is outwith the remit of this thread.

I was actually agreeing with you.

This "happiness" survey stuff. The British are quite reserved types. We don't holler and whoop about how great everything is. Surely the British are always going to come lower down on a "happiness" index than nations which have a culture of (to my English eye) rather excrutiating positivity.

So it just doesn't work.

Very difficult to generalise this, a close-knit community suits some but not all. I know of cases where the depression was caused by having to live as part of a large extended family in a 'Midsomer Murders' style village where everyone knew everyone else.

I think that the increasing levels of depression just mean it's being diagnosed more (which is good). Which means depressed people are being treated, so are happier overall.

I don't think international comparisons are very meaningful because cultures have deep-seated beliefs about "acceptable" emotions. For example, the French have a strong tradition of belief in the necessity of suffering and effort in order to develop as a person (even when the suffering/effort has no other purpose than suffering/effort). So their self-reported depression is likely to be lower than that of a country where suffering is not seen as a "good".

the fact that you agree with me doesn't mean i'm not going to argue

expatinscotland - I'm not saying they do, I'm saying I'd like to

Thats right, lets all put our heads in the sand like good little ostriches.

See no evil, hear no evil etc.

Depression is not 'feeling a bit down' blah, its a medical condition which causes a loss of function. Its a serious, disabling illness.

You are right, Limbo, but it doesn't mean every person who suffers from it is going to be found in statistics: some societies have a higher tolerance for loss of function and/or a stronger stigma against getting help.

There is no doubt my mother suffered from a loss of function- but the family just worked around that, because there was no way she would have agreed to medical help.

I would never accept the same loss of function or impact on the family- so when a member of my present family developed similar symptoms I made arrangements for medical treatment. So that incidence shows up in statistics.

In the same way, my grandmother suffered loss of function as a child, probably due to the same genetic disorder my dd has. But whereas dd has been taken to all sorts of doctors and we have been investigated by Education Welfare and Social Services because of her loss of function (=low school attendance), grandma just went to stay for a year in the country with relatives and hence won't show up in any statistics.

I agree Cory. My OH comes from a farming background and the whole extended family seem reluctant to go to Dr's - and certainly not for any mental health problems.

My OH has bipolar and it certainly sounds as if one GF had it. But the older family members just refer to the "funny turns" he used to have (he is now dead) and just worked round it. It was almost seen as part of his personality rather than an illness to be treated. So he won't appear in any stats.

But of course people feeling isolated as not having anyone they can talk to is not good for people's mental health. There is a shockingly large percentage of older people who don't talk to anyone for days at a time. And a loss in many areas of neighbours talking to each other must have had an impact on this.