To think the high levels of anxiety and depression we experience is down to loss of community?

[joogle]

As in humans are 'designed' to live in communities/tribes and nowadays a lot of us live very solitary lives, getting a large portion of our input from the internet or the telly. I guess this is also why mumsnet does so well, our own cyber community.

I reckon the lack of social interaction (and generally just being around others and extended family) is responsible for the rise in depression and anxiety, especially affecting people when they need their tribe the most, i.e. post natal women and the elderly.

Is this an unreasonable conclusion and if not what can people do to minimise the isolation apart from joining a commune?

There's a rock band local to me called Adverse Camber. It's a fab name.

Joogle....you have pointed out something whih bothers me ALL the time! I grew up in the 70s in a very tight-knit community. Everyone knew everyone else and all the children were welcome in any house the street.

Living as I do now, in a well-to-do suburb where nobody speaks to anyone else unless they HAVE to makes me bloody sad at times.

I have seriosly considered moving back to the place where I grew up...there is still a strong community there...but it suffers from high levels of unemploment.

Sometimes I try to weigh up the pros and cons of each place and they come up even.

Hi OP I didn't read the entire thread but would agree with you by and large. For example, while some posters (and I haven't read all of them) have pointed out that in communities we sometimes have to maintain a facade thus making it more difficult almost, my point would be that its the lack of social support, be it percieved, actual,emtional immediate, that contributes to people feeling isolated, depressed etc. We have to re-learn coping mechanisms in isolation from what would traditionally have been shown to us by elders, structered norms etc. And while we do have a community as such, agencies, mumsnet, these are faceless anonymous supports (still very valuable) but there are no ties. While I'm not a religious or spiritual person there have been studies done that show that church goers are genrally happier more positive people, due in the main to the sense of belonging and community. I guess the same can be said for anybody who has a dedicated hobby where they have strong links with others.

This is a really interesting thread and something I have been discussing a lot recently. I agree with a lot of what has already been said but also think that a lot of women's stress and anxiety has been caused by the fact that many of us grew up with the notion that we could "have it all". Amazing career? Happy family? Perfect marriage? No problem. At least that's the impression I was given in my 20's. I don't know anyone who has all three and most of us feel we're missing out somewhere. We constantly strive to have what others have and I totally agree with whoever it was who said Facebook is a nightmare for this. I thinking getting the balance right is incredibly difficult and whilst having a strong "community" around you can help, it's not the definitive answer.

"a lot of women's stress and anxiety has been caused by the fact that many of us grew up with the notion that we could "have it all". Amazing career? Happy family? Perfect marriage? No problem. At least that's the impression I was given in my 20's. I don't know anyone who has all three and most of us feel we're missing out somewhere."

And not just could have it all, but should have it all, and if we didn't we were weak and failing in some way. I agree that I don't know anyone who has it all either (those that claim they do are in denial about the corners they cut).

Oh yeah and I should add perfect house too - beautifully decorated and always clean and tidy....

i think some of it is due to lack of exercise and the crap we eat. It is very difficult to get away from eating stuff with additives, preservatives and whatnot

In fact I think there was a report on this fairly recently which said the same

'... should have it all...'

Apart from the obvious equality issues, this expectation has piled up the pressure. For men AND women.
It is one of the many reasons why I get intensely irritated by glossy mags - 'aspirational lifestyle', my arse . They are pernicious, they are .

I feel like packing up and moving to the country to live like a hippy!

Oh Joogle its my fantasy to live in the country like a hippy, nice and natural without all the constraints :)

I agree with PacificDogwood

Wot she said.

And the Mummy Olympics, as a form of aspirational parenting that places the derision\vilification of others as the core strategy to increase the feel good value of choices made.

Down with that too.

I think it may be a contributary factor but I'm not sure that the levels of anxiety and depression are really that much higher now - they're just talked about more, and people are slightly less stigmatised by it because it is more "normal".

I think if you go back a few decades, there were still huge numbers of people who relied on sleeping tablets, valium, "mother's little helpers", and lived "on their nerves" or had "nervous breakdowns" - but these weren't recognised or talked about as much.

But certainly there are factors now that contribute more heavily to people's dissatisfaction in life - and yes, I blame glossy mags a lot too, especially the ones who tell you how you ought to be living, thus creating unrealistic aspirations (for many).

To throw my twopenceworth into the pot. Communities are not necessarily good or supportive. People tend to forget how frustrating it is to know that everyone around you, thinks your business is their business. My maternal grandmother (who died before I was born) emigrated to England from Ireland. When she went home for a visit, she was horrified at just how overly inquisitive everyone was- post mistress wanting to know what was in her parcels etc. She much preferred being able to live somewhere where she didn't fill constantly obligated to accede to other people's demands on how she should live.

A community means you lose a lot of rights as an individual, and there has always been acceptance of the fact that things like depression occur just as easily within a community as they do outside of it, but they tend to be better hidden from all your nosy neighbours.

Brainfail, fill should've been feel.

I agree with op

Yes and Reading The Daily Mail

Yes and Reading The Daily Mail

..as i said, i needed to think it through.

i don't see that there is defiitely more/less depression than any other time, itis possibly that there is less in the way of definiable cause fo rit

eg living in one-room hovel with five kids and feeling down? justified misery
living in three-bed semi wiith two kids and feeling down? depression.

some of the things that cause real misery have greatly decreased - hunger, homelessness, premature mortality...

in some ways i think this is probably the happiest time ever. Only to be bettered by the future....

I hope.

'I feel like packing up and moving to the country to live like a hippy!'

The vast majority of people in the country don't live like that at all, though.

Many parts of 'the country' have major problems with economic deprivation, alcohol, drugs, depression and suicide.

There was a really interesting prog on the telly the other night - by Andrew Marr - about large cities. Tokyo was one of them, where apparently it was possible to hire a friend to stave off social isolation. The point he was making is that communities seem to thrive better in poverty-stricken neighbourhoods (Shanghai was one example) than in economically successful ones. I think he's right - I was brought up in an area where poverty was the norm (and still is!!) but the sense of community was fantastic because everyone seemed to share problems and there was feeling of everyone being in the same boat.

We are more aspirational now, and more individualistic, but not necessarily happier. Many of us feel a degree of social isolation and this can impact on our mental health. Also, we seem to be far more neurotic about strangers - particularly where children are concerned - and see "nasties" lurking everywhere!!

There is no longer a sense of adult solidarity, which is sad for our children, who may never grow up to remember the local characters, or times spent kicking a ball in the street, or knocking on doors offering to do jobs.

I'm just so glad I grew up when I did!

I think PND is

1. Better diagnosed so there seems more of it, BUT

1. Probably increased by the pressure put on mums, mainly by other mums, and [lays head on block] I'm not sure whether sites like this help or hinder. Tbh, I find it insane that there are so many evangelists in the parenting methodology debate. So long as you feed the baby, play with them, keep them warm enough, etc, I really don't think that sling vs push chair, cot vs co sleep, bf vs ff, Gina vs attachment is going to make a jot of difference, but new parents (mainly mums) agonise over this stuff and get made to feel like crap by "the opposing camp"

But some people are anxious and depressed because of community!

I moved to a tiny rural village about a year ago (probably less than 1k population). Even now, us and everyone on our row of new HA housing is "new" and to be avoided, even shunned. Nobody talks to me at baby group, and the poor girl next door is positively looked down on for being a single working mother, and it really upsets her. Doesn't bother me, I'd actually rather not be waffled at by old biddies in the street and the stuck-up yummy mummy types at baby group. (Disclaimer: I'm a little bit antisocial and only really enjoy talking to my family in RL)

But it really seems to have negatively affected a lot of the other people in our block. So really, community is a bit shit if you're not "in", and only "the right sort" get in - the whole reason I avoid people is to avoid this sort of cliquey bullshit, I had enough of that at school.

xStarGirl - I have been where you are, albeit in a totally different type of community (an expat one). As the newcomer, I wasn't included and found it really hard to fit in with people who had been there for a while. However, gradually I made friends with other newcomers (a la The Little Princess - I Want a Friend) until I had built up my own "community". Hopefully you and the others on your row of houses - including the girl next door - can do the same thing.

thumbwitch (waving hello, hope you're not up with jetlag!) - I agree with you about glossy mags. My particular bugbear at the moment is the articles about women who have started their own business making cupcakes or opening a delicatessan or whatever and are so happy and it's all wonderful and the children just play round my feet while I work....

Lack of community and other things that have been mentioned may lead to sadness or dissatisfaction - but they are totally different things to depression! Depression is a chemical imbalance in your brain, I can't see how that is going to be affected by whether you have a community around you or not

isn't it susceptibiity, PTT? With sufficient moral/social/practical support, some of us who are susceptible to depression, may avoid it at least some of the time..

really thought-provoking thread..