To think the high levels of anxiety and depression we experience is down to loss of community?

[joogle]

As in humans are 'designed' to live in communities/tribes and nowadays a lot of us live very solitary lives, getting a large portion of our input from the internet or the telly. I guess this is also why mumsnet does so well, our own cyber community.

I reckon the lack of social interaction (and generally just being around others and extended family) is responsible for the rise in depression and anxiety, especially affecting people when they need their tribe the most, i.e. post natal women and the elderly.

Is this an unreasonable conclusion and if not what can people do to minimise the isolation apart from joining a commune?

I think you have a point joogle.

However I think TheBride also has a point about navel gazing. It does not always feel that we have a lot of leisure time but the days I have most social interaction ie rare occasions its all day and possibly evenings to I am busy but happier - I think because I am mentally engaged and no not have time to worry about all the things I should have got done or where my life is going.

Though I have been to social events where no one acknowledges you and that actually makes me feel more lonely and isolated.

My mother in law is Thai and we have spent a lot of time over there over the years and although no one has a 'perfect' society, the people are a hell of a lot happier. I think it's down to the fact they are very communal, live with extended families, eat together, raise children together and care for the elderly, it is also a very tolerant society.

My first husband was Thai and I lived for a significant number of years in BKK with his extended family.

The happiness you have noted, I found to be better attributed to the social expectation of maintaining a "mai pen rai" attitude and keeping negative emotions hidden to avoid losing face.

Superficially things seemed far far happier, scratch under the surface and ...same old, same old.

I did not come away with the impression that the grass was greener. Living with extended family has both advantages and disadvantages. Just like the alternative, how well it works out for people depends very much on the specifics of the individuals involved. For my MIL, the mother of the three youngest cousins, two of the great aunts, and myself it proved to be a less healthy option. But I was the only one who couldn't manage to paper over the cracks with a smile in public.

Piglet Gone. well depression is known about more now...more publicised..so its pretty reasonable with things speeding up (Life I mean) that there is more depression now than known about before.....of course the opposite verbose greedy optimists are not a barrel of laughs.

It's based on a variety of factors. Capitalism has a lot to answer for, IMO.

'we all tried to think of a better time to live than now (as a woman), and we couldn't come up with one.'

Oh, definitely. I answered on that thread. I'd go anywhere in time if I could be young, white, male and rich. Otherwise, fuck that for a game of soldiers.

But I think there is also a lot more unhappiness and discontent with one's lot than in the past

But shouldn't we expect people with those feelings to be far more visible given that compared to the past there is far less stigma associated with verbalising ones unhappiness and discontent ?

I'm not sure about this TBH.

I wonder if a big part of this is that people are less likely to self-medicate than they used to and conditions are more recognised.

eg drugs like opium and cocaine were legal a century ago. Over the counter remedies contained things like opiates. Eveb coca cola used to have cocaine in it!

Smoking is no longer socially acceptable really, and levels have dropped off

Lots more people aware of what constitutes problem drinking and looking for root causes

In the 70s weren't all the mummies on valium?

Before the NHS you could definitely get hard drugs from the GP pretty easily, and even for a while afterwards I think through private doctors? Not sure of teh detail on that.

I just wonder if the human condition is pretty messy and people used to self medicate in ways that they can't any more, or are not acceptable to society, and it's all measured. As a result lots of people on medication and other treatments from the GP and it's all counted rather than dosing themselves with booze/fags/drugs and the doc handing out tranquilisers like candy and no-one paying any attention.

My hunch is that women do most of the heavy lifting in "strong community" cultures, so perhaps the misery would not be lessened, just shunted round to a woman.

My quality of life would be substantially diminished if I were expected to offer any degree of care for my two elderly, cantankerous, Bible-bashing neighbours. Theirs, however, would be considerably enhanced.

This community business always whiffs to me of compulsion - somewhere in the background is a woman having to wipe bums and wash up after big parties.

I think being able to get a degree of detachment from people you don't like is very healthy indeed. Everyone is free to stay in close contact with their extended family and community if they want to. But the number of threads on here about people pissed off with their ILs for meddling or letting themselves into the house or whatever suggests that people like to maintain some distance.

I think often people have high expectations of what their life should be like. The reality is that many if not most people's lives are a struggle. So people get depressed because their life seems so far removed from the ideal life that they think most people have.

And I know it is hard if not impossible to compare yourself with others, but many of those others may not have such a great life as first appears.

For example, I have spent the morning with a friend whose life seemed great. Children doing well (although they are adults and I have never met them), beautiful house, always looks well groomed and she runs her own business. This morning she told me all this stuff and basically her life is a mess with lots of stress.

So although you may compare yourself unfavourably to others, you usually don't really know if someone's life is really good or not.

Some how I do not think the chemical imbalance in my brain that causes my anxiety and depression would be helped if I had a 'community'. Whatever that means.

birth control is why we live in smaller family groups. maybe i should try writing a longer post having thought about it though :)

Bride said 'Yes, tight communities are okay so long as you conform to the norms.' This may be true of a 'tight' community but I have found, growing up and bringing up my family in a small, then larger village community, that diversity was accepted, indeed welcomed. When someone is the only Gay (or black, disabled, mentally ill, pick any difference) person in the village, they are accepted and KNOWN. i.e. they are not just the only Gay but also the pub landlord, chair of the gardening group and next door neighbour's DGS or DGD. Problems only start to arise if there is a large group of 'different' people and a 'them and us' mentality sets in.

When a community is inter-dependent e.g. the butcher takes his van to the only garage and the car mechanic shops at the only butcher; mum1 minds mum2's children when she is late home from work and in turn mum2 keeps an eye on Granny1 when mum1 goes to town, then there is a mutual benefit from being fair/trustworthy to each other. When people start to move outside this loop in search of bargains, better schools, whatever, then distrust sets in, customers/business owners/teachers no longer KNOW each other personally and interdependancy and a vested interest in supporting each other is lost.

I do believe that being cast adrift in a sea of strangers, makes it difficult to maintain a sense of self worth, of your place in the scheme of things, and thus contributes to depression. Within a community, people will notice that you are 'not your self' and try to help. In today's society no one will recognise that you are merely putting a brave face on it to a hostile world.

I don't really like most of the people I meet so I'm more than happy to not have to have anything to do with them.

Eggy I'm not sure that women were happier when they had no birth control available to them.

Many people find a sense of community at their workplace, though. For children at school. Certainly people can have real problems when they retire. I also wonder whether the loss of this contributes to PND for a lot of women.

I think modern technology has a part - all this social networking and stuff - less likely to meet people face to face - means less community = more lonliness and depression if thatmakes sense ?
30 years ago my parents knew all their neighbours - had BBQ's get togethers etc - now i know my neighbours to say hello to but thats it.

Some people still have a sense of community though and it would be interesting to know if they are generally happier than most of us who don't have it.

My OH grew up in a village with a strong sense of community and hated it. The strong sense of community brings good things, but it also often brings gossiping and interference.

I also think reports are exaggerated. Looking at surveys of how many people volunteer and how many people feel they are a part of their community and that they have a strong community, the numbers are always surprisingly high, much higher than doom-mongering articles and politicians would have us believe.

I also think reports are exaggerated. Looking at surveys of how many people volunteer and how many people feel they are a part of their community and that they have a strong community, the numbers are always surprisingly high, much higher than doom-mongering articles and politicians would have us believe.

I also wonder whether the loss of this contributes to PND for a lot of women.

I'm sure some do suffer from PND specifically caused by a sense of isolation and having to carry the entire load alone.

However would those numbers be any greater than those suffering from PND in community settings, thanks to help and company coming in the guise of interference and the undermining of maternal autonomy to make choices for her child ?

My own take on the 'tight community' thing is that there is an ideal size of community. A bit like Goldilocks: Not too large and not too small . Large village, small town.
Just like there is an ideal distance how close/far from my parents I would like to life. 2 miles away like my brother: waaaaaay to close. In another country like I do: much too far away.

Also I SO agree with the notion of 'you get back what you put in'. Lots of research evidence to show that people who work in jobs they feel are 'worthwhile' or who volunteer for a cause they believe in, enjoy better mental wellbeing than those who are successful in jobs they hate.

I live in a large village/small town and even here I dispair sometime how little community spirit there seems to be: so many isolated, loney old people, yoofs with no aim in life other than 'getting wasted', littering like you wouldn't believe etc etc.

PND is a tricky one, isn't it? More mother/toddler groups, baby cafes etc? Mind you, some of my 'autonomous choices' I made for my PFB were just shite misguided - and that's with my mother in another country .

yanbu

I work from home and felt very isolated post children as I was neither part of a mums' or an office community and couldn't go out as much as before in the evenings to see my old friends, which I realised with hindsight is how I'd kept my sanity before. I really lost it for a while, in a quiet kind of way

I made a big effort to be part of the community - make friends with other mums, even if it meant taking time off work to do so, joined a choir , sent dds to the "bad" local school (actually it's fine), rather than a private school miles away which is what most professional parents do round here. I am much, much happier now.

(adversecamber I love your name )