to bevery disappointed that only 63% of women can DRIVE!! ffs

[JunoWatt]

its like saudi arabia here
ONLY JUST OVER HALF OF US! GET A LICENCE LADIES

I don't think helplessness is particularly acceptable here either, now I think about it!

But I get what you mean, my US friends tend to present as very confident. Perhaps the self depreciation (sp?) typical of Brits allows us to carelessly say 'I'm crap at maths/driving/spelling', Can't imagine any of my US friends admitting to being no good at something!

I'm not scared of driving, I actually quite enjoy it although I do find it hard work (driving a car is not something that comes naturally to me, even an automatic) BUT I know I can't drive well enough to pass a test. I can't manage the hazard perception part of the theory, and even if I did get through that, I doubt I'd have much chance of passing the practical test. I had 3 tests, and failed. I'm not a good, or natural driver. It's nothing to do with intelligence, or 'wanting' to pass, or anything like that. It's just how it is.

I should add as a child my mum didn't drive, and my dad worked 6 days a week so 90% of the time he wasn't around and we did stuff by bus or train. My parents would never have moved to an area with no public transport, and it's something I've always been acutely aware of when choosing somewhere to live.

Mathanxiety, you wrote What is it in British culture that makes women feel they can behave like damsels in distress when faced with machines?

How dare you imply we behave like that? It's nothing to do with my gender. I have made an infiormed decision that I am not a safe driver so have decided not to pursue it any further. This does not make me a damsel in distress it makes me a bloody sensible person.

I am adept at technology and machines etc (patronising much???) but I am no good at driving. It takes strength to admit that. Loads of blokes who are shit drivers just go around driving like lunatics anyway.

Your remarks are frankly insulting and they imply that women who don't drive are in some way weak or pathetic. Bollocks.

Math I have a mate who lives in Florida, has four sporty sons and has worked in the aerospace industry for the last twenty years. She drives a gas-guzzling "asexual Mom-mobile" (her words) and by her own admission can not cross traffic to turn left. She does three rights at intersections instead.

Driving in the U.S is very different.

You hit the nail on the head Nesta I think opting out of driving and admitting that you are not able to drive is a very brave and intelligent thing to do. How many people on the road should be doing that right now, or who have killed or seriously injured people just because they think that they are a good driver when they are not safe at all, so that they don't loose face. In fact we could learn from Nesta and Minty a very responsible thing to do. If you feel that you are not able to drive safely on the road than you should not be on the road in the first place. Lives are at risk. It is not everybodys right to drive.

It does seem that women are able to look at themselves in a more constructive way than men, we all have our strengths and weaknesses, and for some driving is not a strength

Its a very good and humbling thing to recognise your faults and also where your strengths lie, mabey Americans could do well to take heed of us Brits, nobody is perfect after all.

Wow...having a pop at older women who don't drive is low! Dh's grandmother can't drive (even if she could, she would be too frail now) and she uses mainly taxis or asks MIL to help her out. Which she does so gladly! As would I, if asked.

It is nothing to do with not learning learning to drive, but having enough respect that you help out the older generation who have helped you in your life. To refuse, or begrudge helping our elders is disrespectful in my opinion.

Nesta, comments on this thread about machines = penises, fear of killing someone, and fear of complete failure to function sensibly when faced with a large machine are what prompted my comment about damsels in distress.

My mum was convinced by an instructor when she was nervous that if she could operate a sewing machine she could drive a car. She is a dab hand at the sewing machine and decided that she would get good at driving, and get over her fear and her doubts about her eyesight (she had serious eye problems in her 30s) and the general fear that she could kill someone in her little Nissan that was in danger of scuppering her efforts. No driver is perfect and there is plenty that I think she could improve, and she has her own thoughts about my driving, but you only have to be a good enough driver to drive successfully; you don't have to be perfect and nobody is. Most people do not kill or injure anyone else on the roads, despite the odd lapse in judgement or concentration. People arrive safely at their destinations having been distracted by all sorts of things along the way, even having dodged drunks or other hazards.

Piglet, not everyone who doesn't drive has a disability. I don't think you speak for every woman who doesn't drive. Many women just don't think they belong on the roads behind the wheel. I think women in Britain should ask themselves if they are really that bad at driving or if they have internalised a cultural message about women and driving and if that is the voice that is telling them to take the bus, and not good sense. Americans have car crashes too after all, and there are some appalling drivers on American roads just as in Britain, yet American women don't shrink from their feeling of entitlement to drive as a result. There is no soul searching or expectation of perfection as opposed to acceptance of good enough, and no decisions en masse to abandon the phallic symbols driving.

amothersplaceisinthewrong

I am so pleased that my dh never threatened anything of the sort while he did all of the driving! I passed in 2007, so had 18yrs of being driven by dh. Thankfully, he never cared or made comments about cancelling the wedding.

I bet if I said he did, he would be slated here.

I think Math has made some interesting points,I agree with many of them.

I am in the US also,the driving thing is a totally different ball game here.

Despite HALLMARK having millions of congratulation type cards,(ie congrats on brushing your teeth) none of them say "congratulations on passing your driving test" It is a non-issue here.

Nobody ever asks how many times it took to pass your test,if you fail you go right back and take it again.

Granted it is easier to take a test here,it is much cheaper and one only pays if they pass.

I used to be slightly scared to drive in the UK,not an overwhelming fear but enough to make me anxious in some driving conditions.

My confidence has increased now because I am expected to drive and nobody doubts my ability to do it.

I truly believe schools in the UK should adopt the same policy as the US and make it part of the school curriculum.

Confidence is stronger when we are teens,it would be a valuable life skill that as adults we could then choose to utilize if wanted or needed.

disclaimer

I understand if, for medical reasons it would not be a good idea :) and if you just don't fancy it and if you are coming from a green perspective.

:)

Very well said riven

Absolutely LeMousquetaire, you've hit the nail on the head, it is a convenience not a necessity, and certainly given the cost it is a luxury.

I had a houseshare with a confident American driver.
He then discovered medieval street systems, stick shifts, over-crowded road systems, weird roundabouts and narrow roads and gave up driving over here fairly quickly.
Some people don't feel confident, some choose not to. I don't see why it's an issue for anyone but the individual concerned.
Those lifeskills threads that have popped up recently? I think learning how to use public transport, however dreadfull it is, is a life skill my teens need to acquire. The fact that it will cost thousands to insure them until they hit a specific age is another reason why they are using trains, planes and walking to get to places. And back again. It is helping them both with independence and tolerance of other people, and planning ahead.
Yes, I know that's not an option for many others, which is why I said it was an individual choice..

I can't drive. We can barely afford to run the one car, which DH uses for work. A second car would be run at the expense of food, electricity, gas...

In walking distance of me are shops, a swimming pool, a library, a duck pond, a park...what do I need a car for?

Since getting with car-driving DH I have put on 3 stone as I no longer have to walk everywhere in the evenings or at the weekend.

I really dont think there is any gender cultural bias around driving in this country. Dh is quite happy to be a non driver, say he hates it and he would be no good.

"But since I had DS I've taken refresher lessons not because I really, really want to drive but because I might need to in an emergency. Plus as he grows up he'll need driving around to activities."

No he wont. Choose activities close by and overscheduled lives arent actually compulsory you know. I see women driving their kids like taxis to various things and spending boring hours in the car. Chuck them in the garden and take some time to yourself. My kids did very few 'activities' and only ones we xould walk too. Two are adults and dont feel they have missed out. That anxiety about 'activities' condemns women to tedious hours of ferrying (and its generally women) and adds to congestion and pollution.

Rant over

Knotty It was actually riven who said that I was merely applauding her .

I have my licence by the way, just refused to drive because I hate it, it makes me very stressed.
I am definitely not a "damsel in distress" and even if offered a lift I usually refuse.

Like the statistic shows for the 17-24 and 25-29 age group there is no difference between male and female %. The % of both male and female driver is going down sightly.
The difference between the under 50 are also negligible around 10 % (probably due to poverty as minty said).
When it does matter is the 50-60 and a huge difference for the 70+ both populations I rather not see on the road (taking examples from my own family).

The licence should be provisional and re-passed every so often, a lot of people are on the road and think they are good drivers when they would actually fail their test if they had to do it again.

For me it is the hand feet eye coordination which makes it difficult and anticipating what the D..k H..d in front of me is doing.
Walking I can see a LOT of drivers who deliberately or not do really silly stuffs and putting people at risk.

I am with riven again I won't be a taxi for my kids, DD1 does have activities after school she is not deprived...

while agree with some of the points that Math has outlined, there are probably some women who do not drive due what I would say is confidence issues, that they don't think that they are good enough for the road. Mine however is a mixed bag: not having the money to learn and run a car, dyspraxia and yes because of the dyspraxia comes confidence. I would never say never, and in the future would like to learn when my circumstances change, after all I was not bad at all at driving (my last examiner said) just failed on signiling and petty stuff, not major faults that could cause a serious accident and kill. I also had my fair share of shit instructors which makes a hell of a difference tbh. I can think of a couple of really good ones I had, the rest were rubbish, and some do make you feel bad, and yes a lot are the men. One male instructor (AA driving school) slapped my hands whilst I was driving because I wasent holding the wheel right. But then I complained and got a fantastic male instructor who was wonderful, unfortunately it was too little to late, as my test was only 3 weeks away. But if i had him from the outset I am confident I would have passed.

Oops, credit to Riven then! And I totally agree about not ferrying kids around all the time. DS does kick-boxing and Beavers and walks to both. He also walks into town (even though we're on a bus route). Some of his friends moan about walking 10 mins to the local shop because they're so used to being ferried around.

Agree with Riven and knottyhair.

If you drive your kids everywhere they will grow up to be dependent on cars. It's time we broke the dependency ans stopped ostracising non drivers.

I think it would be interesting to see how many people who don't drive do have SN.

I was 19 and had no idea I had SN at all, it was only when I got behind the wheel that I realised all the things I'd hidden such as the clumsiness, having two rights and no left, poor perception of speed and distance etc were actually major issues for me. I walk down roads to cross rather than crossing at the corner like other people unless there's a crossing. I'm too scared to cross anywhere else as I can't tell how far away the cars are, or how fast they're moving.

It would be interesting to see how many non drivers either know they have SN or if they don't have a diagnosis of SN would actually be diagnosed if a Dr knew about their problems.

The only non drivers my age (20s) I know have SN - all my NT friends and family can drive.

I've heard it's quite common for people with undiagnosed SN to only realise they have a problem when it comes to getting behind the wheel of a car. A friend of mine was told he had Dyslexia and Dyspraxia as a child but his main problem was the former. He forgot all about being dyspraxic until he tried to learn to drive. Only then did he realise that being dyspraxic had actually been having an impact in his life all along.

And I definitely don't think I'm weak or a damsel in distress for not driving - I've admitted I'm terrible behind the wheel of a car and I've decided not to drive in a culture which judges me as feeble for not driving. That's strength in my opinion. My Dad did the same thing as a young man, gave it a shot, realised he was awful and now he's 71 I guess he won't be learning any time soon!

I don't drive and many of my male and female friends don't either. I live in an area with good transport links. I have had to commute to London and Cambridge - both places a nightmare to drive in and with extortionate parking costs. I live within easy reach of all the amenities I need.

I have a bus stop on my door step which goes directly to the nearest hospital. Much cheaper to use than paying parking fees on arrival.
I have my online groceries delivered by Mr Waitrose.

I never rely on lifts from people. I cycle and walk everywhere.
I am 45 and I am often told I look 10 years younger - no botox here, good old fashioned exercise and fresh air.

My eldest son never asks for lifts from my dh because he is used to walking and cycling everywhere and sees it as laziness.
Over the years I have received many snide comments about my inabilty to learn to drive. I wouldn't mind but the people who make these comments won't travel on motorways and will not drive at night!!!!
I have travelled all over the country and have regular trips away - public transport of course!!!

The majority of drivers that I know don't go beyond their hometown.

Neither dh nor eldest who is 19, have any SN. Both are non drivers and will probably remain so