TO POINT OUT...PANORAMA (TUES) Worse ever secret filming of abuse of vulnerable people.

[ScousyFogarty]

This was the most tragic ever "secret filming" by Panorama of abuse on vulnerable patients in care home. (arrests now made of some staff)

Did any of you manage to sit through the programme? It was an ordeal just to watch

kidderminster- they had CSKY in regulary, GP's, district nurses, in fact anyone that was visiting were complaining, nothing happened. I am now a SW and was visiting a service user in hospital, in the bed opposite was a resident of a previous care home that i had worked in. At first the doctors were going to call the police because they thought that her family had neglected her to the point of hospitalisation. When they found out that it was a care home they went down the correct route, nothing has been done, no one is listening or acting.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Somebody can receive care in a residential home and receive 2-1 care?

Some home resi homes are registered to also provide nursing care.

If the home cant meet the needs of an individual then it needs to go back to the placing authority and request a review.

The problem is that a lot of the carers dont actually 'care'
minimum wage, and a fair few of them are corupt (petty theft, falsifying medication records etc)

we certainly need a national debate about this, but I do have one question

How many MN's work in this type of care home ?

In a previous post i wrote how care plans in hospitals had not been done properly, i was actually reprimanded when i tried to complain once, as strictly speaking it was not part of my job to read care plans, in other words i was being told to shut up.

then it needs to be referred to the local safeguarding vulnerable adults board for investigation and/ or the police

of course people can become very ill in a care home despite excellent care received

and it is worth pointing out that not all abuse of vulnerable adults happens in care homes and hospitals. A substantial proportion happens int he persons home perpetuated by the family

kidderminster- i thought you was pulling a previous post apart were i said that i have seen managers put a service user under 'residential' instead of 'nursing' to fill a bed. As you know they are 'licenced' for so many nursing beds. The regulations differ between service users but these are broken to suit managers.

kidderminster- the patient was severly dehydrated, undernourished and had unacceptable pressure sores for her medical condition. I have worked in social care for 27 years, the regulations only work when applied.

thankyou birdsgottafly

for your honesty.

This is what is blindingly obvious (to me , at least)

The MNs who are not in the industry wave their arms around screeching that something must be done

The people who are actually at the sharp end, are telling you, with tears, why they are stuffed

Its a horrible situation

my intention is not to pull apart anyones posts - I'm sorry if it has come that way.

Some homes are not registered to take people who have been assessed as requiring nursing care and therefore cannot do so.

other home are registered to provide both nursing care and social care sometimes referred to as dual registered

other homes are only registered for nusing care

Unless somebody is self funding their placement, in which case it is the homes responsibility to assess to see if they can meet the persons needs taking into account its registration then the placing authority makes the decision about where the person goes. This depends on the assessment of need. My point is that this is the placing authorities responsibily i.e the LA or PCT not the care homes

They send the care assistants on nutrition courses then tell you that there isn't time to try to get someone to eat or the budget is cut for food so that a high dairy diet (which lessens pressure sores) isn't possible.

The placement might be a variable and subject to the authorities funding rules and schemes

but the mistreatment is down to individuals, and their managers

and if in the home, their family

Kidderminster- again you are quoting the ideal, yes the L A is supposed to be resonsible but doesn't take responsibility. Unless the person has family to defend or challenge the decision then things do not always go as they should, i have seen people switched to suit. That is why the managers of the homes and the area managers need to be held accountable.

I'm not saying that its acceptable and I do believe what you are saying. I work in the safeguarding arena and see what is happening on a daily basis.

Not having time to feed somebody who requires feedng is a serious safeguarding issue and should be reported. The management of pressure sores is an health matter and in a care home should have been referred to district nurse/ GP/ tissue viability nurse for advice/ treatment. Care staff then should follow the advice given.

Kidderminster - NHS Continual Health Care (CHC) are required to review 3, 6 and 12 months (depending on MD/LD/Phy Dis etc) but I can name at least 30 PCT's that do not and can't not carry out reviews due to staff shortage/work load/cuts etc so there is alot of people who are slipping through the net - it is an ideal that you are quoting. And what will happen when CHC is passed over to the GP consortia's?

My posts between 15.00 and 15.06 explain what i mean.

the registered manager is accountable

and mistreatment is down to staff doing it

but it goes much further than that

Sw are already being replaced more and more with 'key workers'. In mental health the role of an AMP is no longer a SW. (Not saying SW are ideal but they are regulated and under codes of coducts and values).

kidder kate -
what about medication ?

Carers follow the care plan, but then find that the tabs are not in blisters but in a box. They ignore the box and no meds are given

no notes are made

I have seen this so many times.

style - I absolutely agree with what you are saying.......I'm not saying that it always happens but rather what should happen if done properly.

I wouldnt like to think of it as the 'ideal' though but rather that this is what is expected/ required etc. It should happen everytime and it is unacceptable that it does not.And the result is that people do slip through the net and abuse iand neglect is not detected.

Problems in care homes are usually down to systemic issues. Weak management, bad practice, young, inexperienced staff learning 'how to do things' from other poorly trained staff. Usually a strong leader (like 'Wayne') that sets the tone of the home and others just copy or think its the way to do things or should be done. Get rid of the key bad eggs and put in a strong manager and most homes can turnaround. This Castlebeck unit was a disgrace and a disaster but it should have been picked up by so many other people/agencies.

Kidderminster - know the system backwards thatnk you. Care plans not being followed as in pressure sore care is not just a 'health matter'. I have never known a registered manager accountable, but tbh it is a pointless arguement, the point is that the system isn't working and needs to be made sure that it does. It has happened across CP and can be more effectively implemented across adult care as 'parents' but paid staff are in charge of the care.

This is what happens when care becomes about profit.

These companies operate on the bare minimum of staff who are paid the minimum wage to maximise profit.

I noticed a lot of hardworking care workers improve their prospects by training in nursing or social work.There is only so much slogging you guts out on the minimum wage a person is prepared to accept. Then the homes get left with the dregs.

Care is hard work and it should be valued.

it depends really - are the carers suppsoed to be doing the medication or is it a prompt?

if medication should be in a blister pack then the pharmacy should arrange that.

if meds arent as they should be then the carer has a duty to report this to the GP or whoever prescribed.

Whoever prescribed the medication should be responsible for ensuring that appropriate systems are in palce to see that patient gets the meds they need.

I spoke of strong management being needed and a certain type of 'culture' ending in earlier posts, so i agree with you.

Also that all employees should be made aware of the regulations. When my DD started she was dumbfounded at the lifting practices because she had never worked in a time when people ere lifted manually, so it was her, at 17 argueing with much older workers, she was never and still hasn't been popular but she has been lucky to have good managers who wanted good staff, so has progressed.

kidderminster - if the 'patient' is under 'residential' then the staff will medicate, if they are under 'nursing' the nurse should, but doesn't always. You report to the nurse in charge, wether that goes any further is up to them, you as staff do not communicate wirth GP's, especially night staff. In fact i have know GP's who consider care assisstants to lowly to speak to.

Blister packs are banned in some places but not others, there isn't a national protacol on medication.

birds I do think we actually agree on the salient points

re pressure sores I'm saying that health take lead/responsibility in treatment etc but care staff then responsible for carrying out whatever is being said or is in the care plan e.g. turning regularly

regsitered managers are accountable to ensure that the home meets its legal requirments. Whetehr that actually happens is absolutely a different story....but i do know of managers that have been removed or left before they were pushed.