TO POINT OUT...PANORAMA (TUES) Worse ever secret filming of abuse of vulnerable people.

[ScousyFogarty]

This was the most tragic ever "secret filming" by Panorama of abuse on vulnerable patients in care home. (arrests now made of some staff)

Did any of you manage to sit through the programme? It was an ordeal just to watch

The four that were arrested last night have been released on bail.

Realistically most of us will need some sort of care, so i have never understood why more people do not get involved with helping to change the system. Those that work in care need to be listened to on what is needed to bring about change. The government are having to rethink their proposals in regards to the NHS because of the reactions of all of the staff within it, the same needs to happen across social care.

Intelligence and personality tests at recruitment of workers.

Seriously, that cast from the Jeremy Kyle show on Panorama last night are not fit to ensure the well-being of a tin of beans at ASDA, let alone vulnerable people with complex needs.

GGGGRRRRR.

Those that have been arrested will only be blocked from working in care if the companies that they apply to next bother with CRB checks and POVA's, which still, not all do. That is why we need internal whistle blowing and the suspension of licences if staff are found to be working without them. The manager or nurse in charge should be held accountable for that.

Mother Mucca- it depends on what you count as 'intelligence', i know of a man who is unable to pass the NVQ needed to still be a hospital porter and so now cannot work. He is the most caring person that you could meet, he cares for people in his family and at work treated paitients as he would wanted his family treating. He has a lovely manner about him but is also a big fella, he is the type of person you want around you when you are feeling vunerable.

I wonder how long the gap was between end of filming and transmission. I haven't seen the programme yet, only the media coverage, but it's a tricky ethical line to walk, isn't it, seeing that first hand as an uncover journo, but presumably not being able to report it until the programme has aired?

Maybe that's not the way it works, and someone more in the know will clarify.

I'm really torn, I haven't seen it yet and part of me wants to watch it but part of me knows I'll be too upset by it (am pg and hormonal, couldn't watch comic relief through sobbing)

Should I watch it?

I was kind of being tongue in cheek, birds.
I know that you don't have to be intelligent to be a caring, reassuring person. Those fuckwits on Panorama last night really got my goat though.

I have worked with children and young people with LDD for 7 years (both in a care setting and family/home/1:1 support) for my local authority. The amount of checks, protocol, training, safeguarding procedures and supervision we have to undergo is vast - it's an essential part of our CPD and we are obliged by law to undertake it if we want to continue our work.

Myself and my colleagues have to oversee transition from children's LDD services to adult LDD services as part of our role and have frequent conversations about how unqualified and unskilled the staff we handover to are (particularly in residential care). Transition is universally our biggest concern, even before funding. Adult services have a vulnerability checklist that is a fraction of that used for children - yp/adults with LDD are assessed using the same tool as other vulnerable adults who are homeless, have drug dependency, have previous convictions, have history of domestic abuse etc.

It's scandalous - childrens needs are continuously assessed and monitored and supervised but once they hit 18, even though their needs often haven't altered at all, they become vulnerable to a flimsy, unregulated system and therefore abuse like this is allowed to happen.

Mother- it was just on another thread posters were making quite insulting remarks towards those prepared to work for low pay and those that struggle to gain qualifications. I have worked accross social care and i have found that neither factor in what makes a good or bad support worker. I have known some that are 'higher up' that could only be described as 'evil' or perverted.

I gather Victoria did it this morning on 5-Live. It will receive massive publicity in all media.

Secret filming can be dodgy ;but it is the only way of getting to the truth on occasions. Blessthe BBC for putting the money in to do it.

The government are having to rethink their proposals in regards to the NHS because of the reactions of all of the staff within it, the same needs to happen across social care.

Exactly birds, unfortunately the social care profession is on it's knees at the moment due to funding & recruitment issues and a general lack of confidence due to high profile safeguarding cases - staff don't feel like there is anywhere for them to go in regards to being 'listened to' - the whistleblower on last nights programme is a case in point - his emails were simply not responded to.

grumblin- i also find that out of all of the 'vunerable' groups that adults with LD have the most difficulty negotiating the system, so the little that is available, they often miss out on and for some reason are 'fobbed off' by many L A staff when asking for help, especially in regards to housing. I have often, in my role as a volunteer wanted to go to the one stop shop and ask the person behind the counter why they thought that it was acceptable to treat my client as they did. But all i can do is highlight the sections that apply to my client in terms of eligibility and send them back, it saddens me.

Full kudos to Paul Kenyon for yet more exposing of abuse.
And littleonemum, more power to your elbow, too.

grumblin- also those in social care cannot 'take to the streets' for fear of arrest so you are at a loss on what to do, that is why i would welcome increased whistleblowing and an organisation that would take note. I do feel that we have to stop the growth of companies that run social care so they are forced from a business angle, to improve.

Littleonemum- unfortunatly managers that listen are few and far between in some sectors. I have worked with people who i have complained about and who shouldn't be working in care. The response has been to try and make sure that the person does not work alone or is in charge but they still manage to 'get at' the residents in small ways (but ways that 'add up') and this adds to the depression felt by those in residential care.

I haven't watched it but live in Bristol where it is and have read the reports about it on the news sites - am horrified!

Birds of course being intelligent and being a competent worker are not mutually exclusive. And yes, abusive practice happens at all levels, I know that.

My flippant remark about intelligence tests were made off the back of my anger at seeing those knuckle-dragging gonzo's last night. It incenses me to see the power abuse and blatant contempt that those workers displayed towards those with LD.

Oh I am ANGRY all over again!

I just couldn't keep watching last night - I changed channels because I couldn't bear it. Which was crap of me - real head in the sand approach.

There is something on the BBC site with the parents of one of the victims - the victim had told them she was being hit, etc., and they'd dismissed it on the basis that it couldn't possibly be true. Poor bloody woman, poor parents. What must they be going through?

I didn't watch it all but I am not surprised. We have a care home next to us and I have been shocked at what I have seen and heard over our fence. I've complained to them about several issues and the staff couldn't care less. Thankfully a new manager is now in charge who is an autism specialist. Her first action was to fire four staff.

She told my dh that one resident has been there for 8 years and the whole time they have never had anyone working there who could communicate with him in sign language.

Will watch the rest tonight.

Twice the whistle blowing nurse alerted his concerns to management. Nothing was done.

Three times he alerted the Quality Care Commission. Nothing was done.

So he went to Panarama.

The journo was pulled out after 5 weeks (was meant to be there longer). Panarama alerted what was happening to the residents the day after the journo was pulled out.

Think what happened at the so called 'care' home was disgusting. How can the so called 'carers' live with themselves. Mental cruelty, physical bullying. Horrible.

Mother - i totally share your anger, i hate any form of power abuse, also.

Those that there being abused were a hundred times better people than their abusers, regardless of their 'intelligence' level, so we do have to be careful how things 'are put'.

I have two DD's with LD's and sometimes the pomposity (not by you), on some threads towards less intelligent people (i don't agree with alot of posters judgement on what itelligence is, anyway) or people who struggle with literacy, annoys the hell out of me.

I'd just like to point out that inteligence has nothing to do with being kind or not. Intelligent is what level of intellect you HAVE kndness or unkindess is your character who you ARE.

The evil that was the destruction of special needs people as well as others in Nazi Germany was not just done by the evil thugs that herded people to their deaths it was done by very very inteligent people. Solicitors and lawyers who made the laws, Doctors and Nurses that agreed to sterilise HUMAN BEINGS without anesthetics and all the middle class teachers and office workers ect who said 'oh well its for the best for them they haven't got a good quality of life anyway and we can't afford to keep them and anyway it's none of our concern'

I have heard some hateful comments about the disabled ect lately haven't you? Things are starting to go badly wrong in this country and soon the question will be which side of the line are you on.

Think on.

Absolutely awful, taped this last night & watched today. Very very sad, feel so sorry for the patients and their families. Was in tears seeing Simone's mum watching when she cried out 'Mum!' just so helpless

I know what sort of 'treatment' those 'care' staff need

I have worked in care with learning disabled & elderly people, have never seen abuse but did see some 'disrespect' issues in untrained, unsuitable (IMO) staff. Also heard of staff being shuffled if anyone complained about them, ie to a different location.

A lot of it is the problem that they need staff & will employ anyone, or so it appears, however unsuitable.