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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

not to tell DS1 that marriage is between a man and a woman only?

81 replies

ttalloo · 29/05/2011 19:45

We were in the park today and saw a bride and groom having photos taken; he asked why she was wearing a big white dress, and I explained that she had got married to someone that she loves very much, and said that maybe when he grows up he'll do the same. He thought for a minute and said he would marry his best friend (a boy) and me .

At that point it dawned on me that I hadn't said that DS1 might marry a girl he loves very much, and that actually, it would be better not to - because I don't have a problem with same-sex marriage, and I would far rather that he grows up thinking that this is as normal as the other sort, and even that I don't much care who he marries (male or female) when he grows up, as long as they are nice and he is happy.

DH is appalled by this, and thinks I'm wrong even to consider telling DS1 (he's four) anything about homosexuality. It's not that I plan to sit him down and give him a lecture, but if it comes up (for example, there's a little girl at swimming who has two mummies, so it might well do) I don't see why I should mumble an answer, change the subject, or say something, frankly, that I don't believe in so that DS1 grows up thinking it's wrong.

So AIBU?

OP posts:

Goofymum · 29/05/2011 22:15

Like others have said you just need to answer questions honestly when they come up. My 4 year old asked if women can marry women. I didn't need to make a big deal of it just answer that yes if a woman loves another woman they can marry each other. DD was totally happy with that.

LordOfTheFlies · 30/05/2011 00:12

Most little boys want to marry their mum because mum is their first true love.They get over it though!

We took the DCs to London and walked along the SouthBank where there were quite a few man/man couples which of course got DS asking questions.I think the best way is just a short answer when the questions arise.Don't overwhelm them but don't lie to them

lesley33 · 30/05/2011 00:51

I think you did the right thing - you answered his question honestly in an age appropriate way. Its not as if you sat down to teach him a lesson about homosexuality.

APieOfButter · 30/05/2011 01:03

Kids don't fully understand marriage full stop, so of course they won't "fully" understand gay marriage/CP, but they get that people love each other extra specially, so why not? It's just not an issue IMO.

Although DD1 once said she wants to marry DD2, because she loves her, and when I said it isn't allowed, she got really annoyed and said that girls can marry girls, and I had to really try not to laugh while I was telling her not her sister. It just seemed so funny to be accused of homophobia by a three year old :)

APieOfButter · 30/05/2011 01:05

And we have King and King too - I mainly chose it because i am sick to death of princesses, and I'm doing all I can to subvert it. Plus it is a lovely book.

5DollarShake · 30/05/2011 01:13

OP - YANBU but as everyone else has said, your DH is!

Telling your DS about homosexuality will not turn him gay, any more than keeping it from him will stop him from being gay if that's who he is.

I know there is one MNer who thinks that being gay is a choice. :rolls eyes emoticon: Waiting for her to turn up on this thread...

Gooseberrybushes · 30/05/2011 01:15

well it is only between a man and a woman

same sex can't marry mdear

lots of people want it different but it ain't that way yet

Gooseberrybushes · 30/05/2011 01:16

if you want to answer his questions honestly you shouldn't say they can get married cos they can't, you would be lying

LordOfTheFlies · 30/05/2011 01:16

Hah!- I've got two painted Drakes in my garden Mr &Mr Duck. The lady ducks looked sooo dreary ( they are model mallards) so I suppose someone has got Mrs & Mrs Duck or Mr& Mrs & Mrs Duck. Gets more confusing!

5DollarShake · 30/05/2011 01:28

That's semantics, Gooseberrybushes mdear, and well you know it. :)

4 year olds aren't big in the difference between marriage and civil unions, so you might as well lump them in together if your basic intent is to say that homosexual and heterosexual relationships are equally valid, and to raise your child without encouraging prejudice.

Gooseberrybushes · 30/05/2011 01:36

it's not semantics sweetie, tis a fact

if one is keen on honesty it helps to know the difference

MumblingRagDoll · 30/05/2011 01:43

My DD (6) is marrying me when she grows up...she told me she is going to have lots of babies and I can look after them whilst she goes out and "buys things"

5DollarShake · 30/05/2011 02:00

Gooseberrybushes you are spectacularly - and wilfully (since I assume you are not actually stupid) - missing the point.

But you carry on doing that sweetie, since being 'honest about terminology' is what's important here. :nods patronisingly emoticon:

Gooseberrybushes · 30/05/2011 02:07

er.... marriage is between a man and a woman

that's not terminology it's kinda the law

doesn't stop you talking about homosexuality or civil partnerships but if the op says a man and a man can get married then .. I don't know, why would you do that?

5DollarShake · 30/05/2011 02:49

We're talking about a four year old here.

They don't need to know the law, nor the absolute correct terminology - you're making the whole thing way too difficult and abstract for them. Isn't this obvious? Do you have children yourself?

The OP is simply trying to get the point across to her DS that he can 'marry' whomever he likes and it will be OK. The important thing here is that point that's being conveyed to the child; not the 100%-correct-in-the-eyes-of-the-law terminology. It's OK to use an umbrella term to make the point.

I can't believe I have to spell this out.

Tortoiseonthehalfshell · 30/05/2011 03:56

We don't even have legally recognised civil unions in Australia, but I've explained marriage as 'when two people love each other so much that they want to tell all their friends and family how much they love each other so they throw a big party and tell everyone at once. And then give each other a big kiss' and since that could also define a commitment ceremony of the sort that gay friends of mine have had, I'm sticking with it.

The whole 'too young to understand homosexuality' crowd always confirm my suspicion that to a homophobe, the very concept of 'same-sex' anything makes them think automatically of ANAL SEX ANAL SEX ANAL SEX. Because honestly, how could someone possibly be too young for 'people love each other'?

wordsonascreen · 30/05/2011 05:13

I'm assuming Gooseberriebushes name is ironic then...

The DC's don't know any gay couples where we live (Dubai I think its illegal) though rather confusingly a lot of I assume straight male Emarati's hold hands in public.

corblimeymadam · 30/05/2011 05:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hairfullofsnakes · 30/05/2011 06:34

Yanbu at all and it is great that more and more people tell their children this and hopefully by doing So we can start to eliminate homophobia once and for all :)

ScrotalPantomime · 30/05/2011 06:38

FFS a little child isn't going to understand the legal aspects of marriage/CP, using an umbrella term is fine! They can learn the difference when they're older.

Haecceity · 30/05/2011 07:55

imo, if they are 'old enough' to know about the marriage between a man and a woman, they are old enough to know that two men or two women can also get married (although it's called something else)

If they can be told about marriage between man and woman, but not same sex - why? That implies that there is something wrong with it. That young children must be protected from knowing that same sex couples exist.

Too young? too young to be told that 2 men / 2 women can marry? but not too young to know that a man and a woman can marry?

There is no difference. When 2 people love each other, they want to be together, etc etc - that is suitable for any age.

Now, if we are talking about sex, that's different. Telling children about sex must be done in an age appropriate way. So you don't go into graphic details with a 4 yr old! That's 'special cuddle' territory. But you are more factual with a 10 yr old.

Whether the couple is woman/man, or man/man or woman/woman. Makes no odds. There's no reason why a child is old enough to learn about man/woman sex but not m/m or w/w sex. Except the belief on the part of the parent that the first is ok/normal/natural but the 2nd and 3rd are wrong/perverted/'adult' and something that young children must be protected from.

If you have told your child about woman/man relationships, but not same sex relationships - why? Why is a child old enough to know that a man and a woman can love each other, but not old enough to know that same sex people can love each other?

If you have told your child about man/woman sex, but not same sex sex - why? Why is a child old enough to know that a man can put his penis into a woman but not old enough to know how two men or two woman can express their love?

People who feel they have to protect their children from info on same sex relationships while feeling comfortable to tell their children about m/f relationships should take a long hard look at themselves, imo.

ScrotalPantomime · 30/05/2011 08:00

What Haec said. :)

mrsravelstein · 30/05/2011 08:09

we have gay next door neighbours, and ds1/ds2 (age 9 and 3) have never remotely questioned the fact that they are effectively 'married'... we spend a lot of time with them, to my dc their family life is basically just the same as ours (only they have dogs and we have kids, hmmm, not sure who got the better deal ) so i agree with most of the others who have said it should just be treated as matter-of-factly as possible.

i have a vague recollection of ds1 a few years ago asking why they were man/man rather than man/woman, and i just said 'because you live with whoever you love' and he understood that perfectly.

Original poster

ttalloo · 30/05/2011 11:06

It's been rather illuminating to read all of your points of view (and a relief that the thread hasn't been hijacked by people whose religious beliefs mean that they think it's unreasonable to tell your children anything positive about homosexuality at all).

I've always known that I want to bring my boys up to be tolerant and understanding of people's differences (whether they relate to race, religion, disability or sexuality) but it wasn't until yesterday that I realised that sexuality is the one thing I haven't ever had to address with DS1, probably because none of our friends or relatives are gay (and no, it's not because of DH - to be honest, I think that his problem is just that he's never really known anyone gay socially, and therefore he fears what he doesn't know).

Yesterday was therefore something of an epiphany for me, and it's given me a lot to think about in terms of how to ensure that DS1 and DS2 grow up to be open-minded about sexuality. Which is just to address it when the opportunity arises, as it did yesterday, without making any more of an issue about it than, say, when DS1 noticed after nearly two years that his best friend's skin colour is different from his, and asked me why.

OP posts:

Mollydollydoll · 30/05/2011 11:12

I'll be honest before yesterday I wouldn't have known what to say but after reading this thread I know what I'd say now and it's to be honest with your kids. This is what's great about MN

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