to think that John Hemming is a dangerous man?

[Spero]

For all the Hemming apologists - please read this.

www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2011/04/27/hemming-an-abuse-of-privilege/

I'm frankly a bit baffled at how this thread is going round and round. There's JH, with his agenda, and then there's a load of posters who are saying, basically:

1. child abuse is terrible, but so too is taking a child away from its mother

1. vulnerable women need more support to prevent adoption becoming necessary

1. Where possible children should be kept with their birth family

1. Is it true that children are taken away from their birth families where there is no justification, simply to meet Govt targets, because if it is then that's really awful.

1. We understand signs of physical abuse, but how can you be sure you're doing the right thing if you take away a child BEFORE it has been abused?

And then there's another group of posters, including some with really relevant knowledge and experience (personal or professional) who are saying:

1. We agree with your points 1, 2 and 3

1. We think that there are probably a small number of cases where children are taken unnecessarily, but it's not through plan, malice or targets. It's about lack of resources, shortage of skilled professionals, a system that is creaking under the weight and in places coming apart at the seams.

1. That lack of malice doesn't make it ok.

1. Lack of direct evidence of physical abuse doesn't mean no evidence of harm. Often the evidence comes in the form of abused/neglected siblings. Often it comes from a child who may not have bruises but is some combination of disturbed, distressed, hungry, dirty, failing to thrive, falling behind in social/emotional development. And a mother who is some combination of disturbed, distressed, chaotic, unkind, out of her tree, unable to keep her children safe from other adults. And a social worker who has to try to work out what is really going on - because the mother won't tell her and the children can't tell her - and reach a decision on whether it is just another shitty miserable childhood or something so serious that the child would be better off in care. Which cannot be easy, at all.

Is there really so much disagreement between us?

Hester, I completely agree with your post.

John Hemming - so because Trippy has withdrawn her post you will not reply to any of my questions?

The most important question (to me) was whether or not you agreed or disagreed with Ian Joseph when he claimed that parents are not allowed to read court documents and their lawyers dissuade them from giving evidence.

Will you please answer at least that question.

As one poster has suggested you may feel defamed by some of the comments on here, please note that I invite you to sue me for any comments made by me.

I would be delighted for these issues to be debated more widely.

If your lawyers would like to contact me, please send me a private message with their address and contact details and I will provide my address for service of any legal papers.

Hi Spero.

I am about to go out now. Would you mind if I pm'd you later for your advice about my situation re a child in care?

fishtank, please do

Maryz - agree. Did you read that about that horrible case today where the mother killed her autistic son because she was afraid he would be taken away by Social Services? I am at a loss to know what can be done to knock down the walls of suspicion and mistrust given that JH and his ilk actively seek to build them up.

I don't think blanket publicity and open hearings are necessarily the answer. That is also going to put a lot of people off seeking help.

Maryz, I don't know of anyone thinking that completely.
It's more that, there's flimsy evidence and perhaps if adoption targets weren't there, parents would be given more of a chance.

Anyway, they stopped the adoption targets, didn't they?
I just worry old habits they've gotten into may die hard.
Therefor this house will be gleaming before SS come on Monday, and if any DS so much as accidentally bumps their head, the visit will be cancelled.
Can't risk it.

Spero, people were suscipious before JH appeared on the scene, the people who'd had dealings with SS around them before, on estates and such.

Perhaps the fear became more widespread with JH though, not denying that.

yukoncher, my HV (and a few other professionals have said the same) said she's more worried about perfect houses than ones where the toys are all over the place. A family house should look like children live there.

Don't worry about bumps either, again they know what's normal and what's not. Even when my youngest fell in the car park a couple of weeks ago and had a massive lump with bruise and the pattern of tarmac and told everyone "Daddy did it" no one was bothered because it was quite obvious where it was that it was just falling over.

Blimey, I have finally read to the end of this thread!

Hester; what a perfect, measured summary you gave.

Having had no opinions of JohnHemming prior to reading this thread (although I did have positive feelings about 'the MP that helped' in various accounts of alleged injustices in the family courts that I'd read; I just didn't recall his name), I must say that he has not come across at all well in this thread. Short answers that seem to bear little relation to the thread content, not answering any of the questions put to him in a reasonable way (some posters have been hostile to him, yes, but you'd think an MP would be used to that...), and then the very childish assertion that he won't answer questions until everyone acknowledges that Trippy was making it all up. I've no idea whether what she said was truth, exaggeration or lie, but for JH to refuse to answer any other of the salient points raised seems...... well, it's not what I would expect from a Member of Parliament.

Thank you so much for that link.

JH is a disgrace.

yukoncher its not the social workers that hold godly powers it the courts- they make the decision to stamp care orders based on evidence presented. They dont just accept evidence without questioning it

I presumed Trippy's discrepancies regarding the age of her first child were typos, John. I presume you are referring to when she said her first child was 8 and then later on said the child was born in 2006 (making her coming up to 5)? This could easily be a typo rather than any confusion.

"yukoncher, my HV (and a few other professionals have said the same) said she's more worried about perfect houses than ones where the toys are all over the place. "

You can't win can you. This is the sort of stuff that drives people half mad.

Has John Hemming answered the question about whether he agrees with families being advised not to engage with SS?

I am extremely interested in the answer to this question for a particular reason.

He said at the beginning that he doesn't advocate not engaging, as that in itself can be taken as a bad thing by SS IYSWIM.

I can't be arsed to go back and find it now!

Im bored.

Here

johnhemming Thu 26-May-11 10:59:11
My advice is not to refuse to co-operate. Ian Joseph's advice is to refuse to co-operate. My warning is that a refusal to co-operate in itself has been used as sufficient for a child to be removed and then adopted.

Interesting. I know a family who sought advice from him and, according to them, his only advice was not to engage.

Maybe he gives different advice for different cases.

No-one ever answers my questions on these threads so I'm going to leave now. Everyone's just too interested in having a big old barney. Which is all well and good, apart from there are some serious things here and no-one will ever give me a straight answer. Which I guess is interesting in itself, as it pretty much seems to mirror how many SW operate in practice.

I think that's it for me on this one though.

"SardineQueen Fri 27-May-11 19:57:51
"yukoncher, my HV (and a few other professionals have said the same) said she's more worried about perfect houses than ones where the toys are all over the place. "

You can't win can you. This is the sort of stuff that drives people half mad."

I know, me and my partner have decided to get the house pristine, stinking of fresh laundry, (was floor with washing powder, smells good)
and then throw some toys on the floor, to make it look naural.
Should work?
DH suggested putting some toys on the floor last time, but I freaked out and wanted it perfect.
It is exhausting :(

"wash floor with"

Lol Maryz :)

We're blessed with a good social worker, who'se relatively new to the job, which I suspect means she's more likely to still has the will to help people. That may be an unfair assumption, but w/e
So she's a little nervous too.

Couldn't belive it though, DH made tea and came in and placed his great big 'I love sex' mug on the coffee table. It's a distastful thing to say on acup, but it's the biggest one he could find, and I just forgot what it said.
So I'm sitting there staring at it in front of us, thinking fliiiiiping helll. They're gonna think we're depraved perverts. :(
I daren't get up to move it incse I drew attention to the cup. Luckily DH noticed later during the meeting.
Don't know if she's written it down, omg.
If any DC was anywhere near being able to read we wouldnt have the stupid cup.
Meh

But yeah, lol stress! :D

One of my friends has just gone for a kinship adoption, had a completely shit social worker who rubbished the family. Case was thrown out of court and child has been placed with my friend. So even with a totally crap SW who is out to get you, the courts are generally sensible. But it takes a lot of chutzpah and determination if you're dealing with one who has already made their mind up.

Like in any other profession, there are good ones, there are shit (and overworked) ones. And generally, they err on the side of caution. Thankfully, the courts are there to see through any bias.

My other friend with her adopted DD is coming to visit this weekend. I truly believe both those children have the outcome that is best for them.

This is never a black and white issue - so many things need to be weighed up but what JH doesn't concern himself with is what is best for the child. And that's all I care about really - and it's all anyone should care about, however hard that might be for the adults involved.

BTW thanks Maryz saying I'm doing well :)
Means a lot :)

I didn't think of that, that adoptive parents would feel under pressure too when around SS. But you have to go through quite deep checks yourselves, don't you, when applying to see if you're good enough. So it's similar actually.