non military scouts?

[knittedbreast]

Hiya was wondering if anyone knew if there was a non military version of the scouts that exists at all for little boys of about 5/6?

Thanks

I do understand that you want a more informal group - but you would have attended these groups some time ago. They are actually now much less old-fashioned. I ran a brownie group for a number of years and if it had been anything like the military - I would have marched right out of there!

I think it is the 'military' association that people are puzzled about knittedbreast. Having a uniform does not mean a military outlook.

Having some rules is really important. The other thing I have run is a youth club for younger children - there are not many of those about. Less organised (at least superficially) but of course still rules and some form of weekly plan.

I hope your son loves whatever he does and has a good time!

I think the issue is that you are, (I'm sure unintentionally) misrepresenting the Scouting movement, and perpetuating a myth that has quite common currency. And those of us who know it's not true get a bit frustrated to hear it still circulating, dispite our efforts to dispel it!

I am an atheist, pacifist White Poppy wearer and had similar concerns some years ago. . My children would have missed out on so much if I hadn't realized they were unfounded.

I suppose you could say that wearin a uniform, being divided into patrols with a leader and a second, and practicing outdoors survival-type stuff is a bit like the military.

But that doesn't make the organisation military. The cadets are military.

ok well thats not my experience of it. i would just prefer something else and thats why ive chosen something else.

The only military aspect I've witnessed is the parade... and to be honest, when I'm involved with the Midsummer Watch Parade in Chester there's the same level of 'order' because otherwise it would be a parade but people wandering off in all directions.

Glasto You've converted me to tin cups... I have been known to have a flask of something warming inthe past, do tin cups come in pretty shapes?

OP - my son is a Beaver and I think the scout & guide movement has really modernised over the past 20 years since you were probably a guide. Beavers, cubs and scouts do wear a uniform but are definitely not military influenced. There is a Christian ethos which I struggle with sometimes but I'm all for choices for my son to make as he goes through life. And there is always going to be some sort of order needed otherwise surely it would be chaos? I'm sure even the woodcraft folk would need to organise the boys to some extent. All scouting beavers, cubs and scouts are open to girls too and are very inclusive for children with special needs or disabilities.

I really think you need to go and have a look at some groups of activities for your son without discounting something that he may think is wonderful.

I really hope you find something that suits your child rather than just you.

If there was amilitary aspect about scouts perhaps my ds would be a damn sight more organised than he is. There is nothing military about the scouts, and that comes from a military daughter and wife. If expecting the kids to take responsibility for their stuff, be careful of others and get involved in group and outdoor activities is military then more of it please, but it ain't.

why on earth would you say something like that toy?

children dont have to swear aliegence to the queen to be told how to behave. just because i dont want my son to attend beavers dousnt mean i dont want him to go anywhere and actually behave himself either.

"i really hope you find something that suits your child rather than just you".

seriously? dont we all make decisions on things our children do with an ethos we as parents agree with? yes? ok so i have said that the woodcraft folk has more of an ethos i agree with.

What an odd thread! I have never thought for scouts as military in the slightest.

To the poster that suggested badgers I agree it's fantastic but as they wear a uniform and take part in parades on remembrance day, and the organisation has a religious history so I don't think it would meet the ops (rather odd) wish list!

have to say think you are being a bit ott here, i went to the scouts one of the first girls yada yada yada and its got a passing nod to standing around to do the flag and wear the uniform then we took it off and played games and learned how to camp and tie knots and stuff, being worried about the military aspects of it seems a bit of a stretch.

maybe woodcraft folk would suit better

certainly has v honourable history of anti- fascism -which I didn't realise-amending pre-conceptions rapidly-I did think WF were a bit like Steiner schools

(unlike B-Powell- it has to be said-didn't he send scouts over in 30s to 'learn' from Hitler Youth-would be happy to be wrong)

www.woodcraft.org.uk/history/kindertransport%20memories

i dont want my child involved in parades, why is that ott or odd? its just an opinion. and there are plenty of people like me hence the woodcraft groups existing.

im not worried about those aspects, but if there is a group that offers the same resources without the aspect i dont like its obviously the one im going to choose!

I think it's odd, I don't see what harm it does. When it comes to remembrance day I can see it being nothing but good for them tbh. My view is it is vital for young people to understand about wars past and present. That doesn't mean you have to agree with the battles though.

What would you do if your son in a few years said he wanted to be a scout/army cadet or heaven forbid wanted to join the army when older?

what he does when hes older is his choice, but now he is 5

Why does it seem like knitted is being made to defend her choice to favour woodcraft folk over scouts?

We are all different, we accept that that is a good thing, so where's the problem?

I love my ds going to cubs and doing things their way, and tbh woodcraft folk sounds like my idea of hell, but I shouldn't have to defend that anymore than anyone else should have to defend the opposite view.

To be fair, I think the OP probably got off on the wrong foot by describing the scouts as 'military'. I think it is fair enough that she is looking for organisations that see thinks fit with how she would like her DS to be raised. I say that with a caveat - as long as her DS has had his options (ins scouts) discussed with him, and he would prefer to go to other things (like the woodfolk.) Otherwise you could well have the situation where he is DESPERATE to join Beavers like all his other matter and have badges and whatever....and he isn't allowed to. That is a bit harsh! My MIL is an ardent pacificist and always has been, but took my DH to Sea Scouts and Air Training Corps as a child because that is what he wanted to do. It didn't fit into her view of the world AT ALL, but she accepted that he was desperate to do it.

I have no issue with anyone's choices on here at all, each to their own, but I think its the 'military' aspect that causing reaction, as the Scouting movement is not very military at all, no more 'regimented' than many a group purely for logistical reasons.

For our local scout groups, the parades are optional... most do attend, because they like it, but its not compulsory, though I THINK its a quick way to get a certain badge or something.

ok, look i obviously dont agree or support the army. i think we all get that, you obviously know that too. Im not going to stand here and list the reasons why because they are personal and im choosing not to share them with you because lots of you will probebly dissagree and many will have military family or husbands. Im not going to start saying things that might upset or offend and i wouldnt ever say those things to my son either.

i am looking for an outdoorsy, boys being boys craft typed thing with as little links to any kind of religious or military (however loosly based) theme as possible, that why i worded it non military scouts, i was eluding to the fact i didnt want the parades/remeberence/flag stuff. thats just my choice, and as he is 5 im sure he will enjoy woodcraft and wont berate me for it. so please just accept and suppoort my choice to not introduce those bits into his life while still trying to enrich his development as much as possible, :)

I have no objection to the OP choosing Woodcraft folk over Scouts. What I do object to is calling Scouts militaristic, because it isn't. If it was I would not let my kid anywhere near, as I am a lefty atheist pacifist.

I quite want the OP to define "military". I'm guessing it won't quite be OED standard.

My kid has never been on parade, I don't think we have them.

Once again, MN is picking on the use of one written word rather than trying to see the true meaning of the post then?

The parades are usually about special Church events, rememberance should be done by everyone, not to glorify, but to remember... a pacifist can remember, and the flag 'stuff' is about being proud of a nation, acknowledging a common ground, our home, and can be done by everyone without sinister motives.

There may be similarities to ANY group but the groups are all different. The scouting movement is certainly not the same as the Nazi Hitler Youth, even though there are parades involved... the Midsummer Watch Parade is a pagan tradition, but they're not conducting child sacrifice (not this year anyway)....

I'd like to learn more about the Woodcraft Folk, it sounds fab. But my experience of scouts is NOT one of regiment, marching, war glory, monarchy loving, indoctrination. If its not for you its not for you, but just because its not for you doesn't mean it IS all the things you think it is.... I guess that's where any angst comes from.

wE ArE tEh BoRg!!

True meaning, in a written medium, relies on written words to be conveyed. It helps if they're used properly, but if that's beyond someone at least they could provide a clue to their intended meaning?