not to take a newborn to my in-laws for Christmas?

[Tortoiseonthehalfshell]

Do I win a prize for First Christmas-themed AIBU of the year? Perhaps a half-unwrapped sticky candy cane, with lint stuck to it?

We recently announced my pregnancy with #2, who is due at the end of November. Some few conversations later it became clear that they were still expecting us for Christmas, I said we wouldn't make it, they got cross because It's Our Turn. I'm pretty sure I'm right, but then again I also don't want to go, so maybe I need an outside view.

Background:
We're in Australia. They live in a neighbouring state, which is about 1.5 hours away by plane, in the same town as various siblings, grandparents, nieces and nephews. My youngest SIL still lives at home, and my GMIL lives downstairs in a self-contained unit. My mother and brother live in the same town as we do, but that's the extent of my family.

Until a few years ago, they moved around the country a lot and we rarely, if ever, saw them for Christmas itself, usually just catching up for Big Events like my MIL's 50th, weddings, etc. Even 3 years ago, when my daughter (first grandchild) was born, they were content to have their big Christmas at home while we had our little one at our place, and they flew over after Christmas for a visit. Worked well. The next year, when we had a 1-year-old, we went to theirs, as did my other SIL, her husband and their infant.

This is relevant: it is Not Done to stay elsewhere except the family home on visits. It is a 3BD plus the self-contained bit. To fit us all in, the GMIL moved into the younger SIL's room, younger SIL took the sofabed in the lounge, elder SIL + family took the downstairs unit, we three squished into the guest room, which just fits a double bed and a travel cot, obviously the parents had their own room. It was a squish, and because the guest room was just off the main dining area, DD had trouble sleeping, but it was a holiday, so fine.

This time around, SIL will have a 2.5 year old and a 9 month old. We will have a 3 year old and a four week old, assuming I don't go late, but I didn't last time.

Here are their arguments:

1. It is our turn.
2. Newborns are portable, and easy to travel with
3. There will be lots of hands to help
4. GMIL is too frail to fly to ours/can't fit in our place along with the in-laws, so wouldn't be able to see newborn if we don't come

Here are my arguments:

1. I will have a FOUR WEEK OLD
2. And probably stitches, and lochia, and leaky boobs
3. At 4 weeks old, DD screamed for 2-3 hours every night before sleep, which rarely happened until midnight, slept in 2 hour bursts and only if in bed with me, cluster fed and vomited a lot. We coped by pacing the house all evening, then sleeping when she did, taking things very easy, and both being pretty much completely hands-on all the time. This is utterly incompatible with staying in a crowded house full of people, in a bed too small for co-sleeping, in a room where a 3 year old is also trying to sleep.
4. The amount of 'helping hands' will be drastically reduced by the fact that the in-laws will be making elaborate meals for large crowds, worrying about where the formal china was put away, arranging the larger children for formal photographs, etc. Christmas is a Big Fucking Deal at their place. 4a) And there will be a newly mobile baby there as well as two bigger toddlers. And the place is not babyproofed, at all.
5. Germy planes and newborns?
6. (Not vocalised) I haven't had a nice little family Christmas with my own mum and brother, whom I love dearly, since DD was born. Four weeks out from giving birth, I think I deserve one.

Sorry about the novel. It's the result of many hours muttering arguments to myself when I should be sleeping.

Our situation -
Mum 6 hours away, PILS 4 hours away.

When DS was newborn, we said "We are not travelling at Christmas".
We have repeated as necessary each year. We went this year and was hell with snow, lots of traffic, overcrowded house and short tempers after 36 hours.

We have now agreed with both sets of parents that we will not be travelling at Christmas. There are 51 other less high-stress, high expectation, busy weeks of the year to do so.

Put your foot down. How old are you ? 13 or 30?

YANBU not to go - although germy planes really isn't a reason. Your local GP's surgery will probably have more germs than a plave. But YABVU to not go to in laws but go to your family instead. IMO you either go to inlaws or stay at home.

And I think if you do go to your family instead, this could cause major tensions with in laws.

Erm. 30. Yes, definitely 30.

Lesley, I said above, I'm not going to my family either - they'd come to me, as my in-laws would be welcome to do. My Mum lives 10 minutes down the road but we have the bigger house, so she'll just drive up the hill for lunch. You don't mean I have to stop her coming for lunch, right?

No way I'd go either. And congratulations :)

Congratters, tortoise.

No YANBU.

Make a later date, but no promises until after you give birth, as all things can change.

As for not Christmassing with your rels down the road so as look even-handed, well, bollocks to that.

FFS it's not a competition.

Sorry Tortoise - I hadn't read all the comments. In that case YANBU to say we are not coming for Xmas - too many unknowns apart from anything e.g. will baby be born late, will you have a difficult birth and still be physically recovering, will you be able to book a plane ticket, will you have a baby sreams/cries almost all the time etc.

But I would say family are welcome to come to yours for lunch. But I think your earlier idea of saying you will visit at the end of January is a good one. It lets them know that you are happy to visit, but agreeing to travel at 4 weeks old before you have had the baby is unrealistic.

I would stay at home for Christmas and see who you want to see. Refusing to see your family is plain ridiculous.

Invite mil over for your dd's birthday, if you feel comfortable with that but I would not commit to flying anywhere after Christmas until after the baby is born and you see how you feel. Flights should not be as busy then and should be easier to book last minute. There is also the issue of getting a passport over the festive period as a previous poster has pointed out.

Stick to your guns. I'm expecting my first in late November and there's no waaayyy we're going away for Christmas. Its easier for us though as we've already established a pattern of not going to either side for Christmas.

YANBU

I try not to set the expectation of turns with things like Christmas because life gets in the way and flexibility keeps you sane, you inevitably end up disappointing people if they have expectations.

Once we had more than one ds, we only travelled for christmas once - and it was a total bloody nightmare, even though I didn't have a newborn. We drove up to my mum's - which entailed buying a roofbox for the car, because we had to take up all the presents (including all the stocking presents - for the three dses, for dh and myself [we do them for eachother] and for mum so she didn't feel left out) as well as all the paraphernalia associated with three small dc.

None of us slept as well as we do at home, and we had to cope with my childless dsis and dbil, who wanted to spend all of christmas doing the King Williams Quiz from the paper, stacking reference books in great piles all over the house, and thought children should be seen and not heard (dbil). He even objected to the children sharing in the foodie treats they'd bought as their contribution to the christmas festivities.

By the middle of christmas day, it was only God's Precious Gift of Alchohol (never mind the baby jesus) that was getting me through the combined hell of family, and trying to assemble three lots of bloody Harry Potter Lego, including Dumbledore's office, using the instructions that apparently are written by someone who HATES MOTHERS!! Ooops - slight rant there.

Have a lovely family christmas at yours, with your dd and your newborn. You have every right to set your own traditions - we did - we stay at home, and mum/MIL etc can come to us if they want.

SDTG - husbands are supposed to assemble all the toys at Christmas. It's the law!

stay home and start your own family traditions, its was we do and congratulations

SDTG you made me laugh. Sounded almost as good as my last christmas at the inlaws. Surely getting the dsil and dbil to assemble the toys would be the way to go since they seem to like a challenge!
Op YANBU at all. Put your foot down this year and get dh to do the telling or you will be reliving the same dilemma forever after. I wouldn't even get involved in any discussions about other visits until he has spoken to your MIL as grown up to grown up otherwise you are just giving excuse notes and get out clauses so that they don't properly resolve the problem but put it off till next time.

Stay at home for Christmas, but extend an invitation to the ILs if they want to come to you. Then none of the ILs can say the "other side" got better treatment.

Nip any conversations with your DH starting with "but say we had to go to theirs" in the bud. The only thing you have to do is ensure that during the postpartum period you and the baby are feeling well and happy and confortable. You need to feel well rested (as far as you can with a new baby!) and to take things as slowly as you feel that you need to, in order to recover from the birth. There is no other "have to" in these circumstances.

Can't believe the cheek of them complaining that they had to come "all the way" to yours last year though - do they think it's less far to get to their house from yours that it is to do the journey the other way around??

Its time to re-address the turn based Christmas arrangements.

We had to do it. We used to speand one year with one set of parents/family, the next with the other. When WE became a family in our own right, we phoned BOTH sets of family in January and TOLD them that from now on, for us all to be happy and keep loving Christmas there would have to be a 3 year 'rota' - no one liked the idea, but that is how it is.

Its worked wonderfully. We acknowledge both in law's wishes for 'family time' so often make extra trips throughout the year, and we lengthened Christmas to include New Year (something we never really celebrated before) so that there was more time to make flying visits over the festive season (my folks live 300 miles away).

For example, Christmas 2011... we will spend eve, day and boxing day at home with no visitors, on the 27th my folks are visiting and will be around until the 30th, on the 31st we'll be spending lunch with the in laws and bringing FIL home with us until the 2nd of Jaunary. Its a busy week, but it works. You do need to be strong though.

I sat down with the unofficial 'leader' of each family (my mum on one side, my revolting SIL on the other) and told them how it was going to roll for US. They could either like it or lump it, my mum likes it, my SIL likes nothing but she lumps it because she likes to keep up the appearance/illusion of being nice.

YANBU. Our baby will be 5 months at Christmas and we have already told my parents we are not going to theirs. It is their turn and we only see them once a year but they live in France and the sheer thought of having to travel that far with a baby is making me feel ill. We can't fly (health reasons) so it would have to be a car journey, min 12 hours. I'd much rather have to put them all up on air matresses on the floor in my own home than have to subject myself to utter stress to see them when they are perfectly capable of coming to ours.

I wouldn't want to travel to stay with relatives a long way away when I've just had a baby even if everything is straightforward and, at the moment, no-one knows if it will be. There are too many unknowns. You need to be able to recover from the birth not travel hundreds of miles for an extended houseparty.

At the moment you've got a situation where your MIL has decided who sill be hosting Christmas and who the other guests will be for the rest of her life and she expects everyone to fall in with it. You do not have to agree to this.

I also think rotas are very rigid because they create expectations that you might not be able to, or wish to, fulfill.

I would let her know that you all love to see her and her family at Christmas but that now you have children of your own you need to keep things a bit more flexible. Some years you might go to visit her, other years you might visit your own family and sometimes you might want to spend it at home on your own or even go on holiday. There are a lot of unknowns with everyone's circumstances if you think about it and these will all change over the years. This means that plans will need to be made nearer the time ie not years in advance.

""Ok, but say if we had to go to theirs..."."

You need to point out to your DH that you're adults so you don't 'have to' at all.

Absolutely don't go!

Dd was 5 weeks old for her first Christmas. I really wanted to travel down (2.5 hours by car) and stay with my parents for a few days.

It was hell on earth!

I was still bleeding & leaking milk, dd was almost nocturnal and had terrible colic. We didn't sleep, my sister and her partner didn't sleep, her two boys didn't sleep. My parents only slept because they were on a different floor of the house! Dd screamed all night, every night and everyone was grouchy all day because of the lack of sleep.

Dig your heels in and just tell them that you're not coming. Don't give any reasons. As I've read elsewhere on mumsnet, "No" is a complete sentence.

YANBU

I really, really would put your foot down about this. No need to get shouty about it, but keep saying 'Sorry, NO, the whole thing is far too unpredictable to try and make any elaborate plans about'. You don't need to come up with better reasons than theirs, it is completely out of your hands. The 'Where are we going for Christmas' business is a battle that gets easier to fight if you make a stand early on.

Personally I think your reason 6) should be higher up the list. But all the others are eminently sensible and trump any nonsense about 'turns'.

What is this 'turns' rubbish anyway? That is the sort of thing we use to stop four year olds from fighting, not grown adults who can reasonably be expected to think about others' feelings before themselves.

Congratulations on the baby. I hope you have a lovely festive relaxed time en famille without any emotional blackmail.

YANBU Tortoise. It would be frankly insane to agree to a plane journey with a newborn who may be only a few days old (babies may be portable; travel cots/prams/car seats less so) as well as a toddler, all the Christmas stuff, presents etc, while you are recovering from the birth, bleeding, perhaps trying to establish BF. If your MIL wants to see her arse about you not going, let her.

You can visit frail GMIL when you are ready to travel. You, and especially the baby, are real life humans with needs, not possessions to be passed around at the convenience of the family.

After years of travelling all over the country visiting 4 sets of parents at Christmas, with all the presents / baby kit / beds /emergency snow kit in tow, dragging the children on 6 hour + journeys, we've finally said no more. Christmas Eve to Boxing Day is at our house and family are welcome to visit.

I also wouldn't extend any other invitations so close to your due date. You might end up having to cater for extended in-law family whilst in labour/ trying to recover from the birth- it's just not worth the hassle. Invite them at the time if you feel up to it. Don't invite them because you feel guilty about Christmas - just don't feel guilty!

Not this or any other year would I consider doing that.

YADNBU

YANBU, you will have a tiny baby and can't commit to travelling such a long distance. I would also recommend mentioning that now your family is growing you won't necessarily be committing to "turns" as will want to do what is best for your DC each year. What about when your DC are older and want to be in their own home for xmas? (give proviso ILs always welcome to visit you at/around xmas so you don't look like meanie trying to keep ILs apart from their DGC).

Sympathies as I have had long battles (fully vented about on MN for last few years) with ILs who wanted us to spend every xmas at theirs or they would be simply devastated .